The_Break Posted February 23, 2008 Share Johan You can call it a copout if you like. I will even tell you that you win this one ok? I haven't been around long enough on this site, but it seems that no matter how much someone explains something to a person like you, you will keep on pressing the issue and trying to look like you are right. What's worse is the way you do it. You never debated, but attacked from the start. I don't like arguing about silly things. Wolverine is sorted. I was just trying to diagnose Wolverines problems and then answer some questions that came along with it from other hubbers. I am not trying to prove anything. If I was insecure about my knowledge of engineering then my business would have failed a long time ago. I think the bigger questions is, do you have internal friction pushing you back in life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big H Posted February 24, 2008 Share Johan You can call it a copout if you like. I will even tell you that you win this one ok? I haven't been around long enough on this site' date=' but it seems that no matter how much someone explains something to a person like you, you will keep on pressing the issue and trying to look like you are right. What's worse is the way you do it. You never debated, but attacked from the start. I don't like arguing about silly things. Wolverine is sorted. I was just trying to diagnose Wolverines problems and then answer some questions that came along with it from other hubbers. I am not trying to prove anything. If I was insecure about my knowledge of engineering then my business would have failed a long time ago. I think the bigger questions is, do you have internal friction pushing you back in life?[/quote'] Post again and ask him if unbalanced wheels is a problem and that you, as advised by one of the biggest and most respected bicycle tool companies in the world use a spoke tensiometer. He will most likely try to convince you that he ....... single JB is right and they with all the development and research they do are wrong. He may be a good wheelbuilder and bike wrench ........ but by jove he is opinionated!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted February 24, 2008 Share Hallo Tommie<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Wanneer die vurk beweeg' date=' en dit beweeg nie gelyk en ewe ver albei kante nie, dan veroorsaak dit 'n effense stuur aksie wat teenstrydig is met die rigting waarin die fiets beweeg. Die storie dat die pad geen invloed het nie is volgens my BULL! 'n ongelyk pad druk die voorwiel in 'n ander rigting wat die sentrale balans versteur. 'n Pad fiets se kontak met die pad is so min dat enige versteuring 'n effek gaan he. [/quote'] Ek het ?n bietjie gaan nadink oor jou stelling. Sou die vurk beweeg het soos jy voorstel, sou twee dinge gebeur het:1) Die fiets sou self stuur en trek na die kant toe van die swakker vurkbeen.2) Daar sou duidelike skaafplekke (fretting) gewees het tussen die naaf se ?jamb nut? en die vurk se dropout. Want, die vurk is mos aan die naaf vas en vir een been on meer te beweeg as die ander sal daar interaksie wees by die hegging tussen die twee (by fietspedale is dit duidelik sigbaar). Nie een van hierdie twee gebeur nie. Verder, die praktiese bewys is as jy loshande ry en die fiets stuur nie skeef nie. Wiele vervorm glad nie op pad fietse nie' date=' dis hoekom 'n voorwiel baie lank hou??? - WOW! Dit is inderdaad goeie nuus vir my. Ek is liggewig en omtrent 65% van my gewig word op die agterwiel gedra. So 35% word deur die voorwiel gedra wat dit net nog makliker maak vir 'n klippie om die voorwiel van rigting te laat verander. Wanneer die g@t van die saal gelig word, word die balans van die fiets gewysig. Eers is die gewig op die saal, dan verskuif dit na die pedale wat laer as die saal is en meer in die middel van die hele fiets is. Die gewigs verspreiding is dan baie nader aan 50% voor en agter.[/quote'] In hierdie paragraaf maak jy twee stellings. Ongelukkig met stelling 1 is dit nie wat ek gese het nie. Ek het gese daar is geen wrywing (road pinch) tussen ?n fietswiel en die pad nie. Dis heeltemal anders as vervorm. Ek het vervorming genoem en gese die energieverliese daaraan verbonde is ?histerisis?. Gaan kyk maar weer. Twee: Jy praat van klippies wat die fiets se rigting laat verander. Dit het te doen met die heel eerste punt wat ek gemaak het. As jy loshande ry sal jy sien dat klippies glad nie ?n rigtingsverandering aanbring nie. Ek kan loshande ry op my bergfiets op n? klipperigge pad en die stuur word nie deur stampe beinvloed nie. Probeer maar self. Wanneer daar meer regop gesit word is daar meer wind weerstand' date=' wat veroorsaak dat die spoed daal. Duidelik behoort die "wobble" dan minder te raak. [/quote'] ?n Spoed wobble werk nie logies nie en volg nie common sense nie. Ja, as jy regop sit dan daal die spoed maar die wobble vat baie lank om te verdwyn. Hy verskyn op ?n sekere spoed (48 kph op my rooi fiets) maar as jy stadiger ry verdwyn hy eers by 28 kph. Tog is dit vir my onmoontlik om dit by 28 kph te begin. Dis so ?n bietjie soos politieke onrus. Hulle protesteer oor Afrikaans in die skole maar as jy Afrikaans dadelik wegvat by die onrus nog daar. Gaan ry ?n bietjie loshande en ekperimenteer met ?n speed wobble soos ek in ?n vroeer pos beskryf het. Dis ?n fasinerende phenomena. GroeteJBJohan Bornman2008-02-24 01:23:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegend Posted February 24, 2008 Share Johan You can call it a copout if you like. I will even tell you that you win this one ok? I haven't been around long enough on this site' date=' but it seems that no matter how much someone explains something to a person like you, you will keep on pressing the issue and trying to look like you are right. What's worse is the way you do it. You never debated, but attacked from the start. I don't like arguing about silly things. Wolverine is sorted. I was just trying to diagnose Wolverines problems and then answer some questions that came along with it from other hubbers. I am not trying to prove anything. If I was insecure about my knowledge of engineering then my business would have failed a long time ago. I think the bigger questions is, do you have internal friction pushing you back in life?[/quote'] The Break - the best way of interacting with the yellow saddle guy is with a good tune on your ears, lots of billtong, chips and coke besides you and a wide smile on your face!lekker sondag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minion Posted February 24, 2008 Share http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.pngxkcd.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted February 24, 2008 Share Hey I am the king of wobble and balls to these scientific theories - wobble is caused from tensing on the bike (obviously if nothing is broken or loose). I have the ability to induce a speed wobble at 10km or 60 km and it has taken me 1 year of hard work to finally get rid of this monkey on my back. Relax take it easy and pinch that top tube if it does come along. I also found that to lightly apply both brakes helps to get rid of the wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan Posted February 24, 2008 Share Have you actually ridden a bicycle muxman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javadude Posted February 26, 2008 Share I'm not sure if I'm looking for trouble posting this, but here is another take on Speed Wobble that our resident hub engineers can shred to pieces. To the layman like me though it made for some interesting reading: http://www.calfeedesign.com/forksymmetry.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted February 26, 2008 Share I'm not sure if I'm looking for trouble posting this' date=' but here is another take on Speed Wobble that our resident hub engineers can shred to pieces. To the layman like me though it made for some interesting reading:http://www.calfeedesign.com/forksymmetry.htm[/quote'] No, why would that be looking for trouble? It's always nice to have a well thought-out point of view presented. Present hocus pocus and some nasty people here may flame you. I think Calfee's take on the speed wobble is interesting from several perspectives, not least being them admitting that it is difficult to test for any one condition like fork assymetry causing a wobble, because the sample is so small and it is difficult to set up the experiment. If find the explanation of why it does that lacking but appreciate the fact that they say there are several inputs that cause a wobble and that the wobble is a harmonic in the system. We've seen all the contributing factors mentioned here - stem length, loose headset, broken frame, you name it. Now they've added another one. I'll keep a lookout for fork assymetry. When I encounter a bike with a prevalence for wobbles, I'll as to ride it and do the no-hands experiment to see if it pulls to one side. My Cannondale definitely pulls to one side but I can't get it to wobble riding hands-on. I see Calfee mentions nothing about frictional forces and friction formulas that when distilled in a force diagram and integrated in a calculus machine, produces a speed wobble that can only be understood by the select few. Maybe it is just a harmonic after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted February 26, 2008 Share 6 pages and nobody mentions Q-Factor I would provide a wikipedia link, but I hear that such peer-reviewed information sources are frowned upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Break Posted February 26, 2008 Share Johan Bornman reminds me of the movie, Cliff Hanger! He just never let's go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyOwl Posted February 26, 2008 Share Yip...your not wrong there bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Break Posted February 26, 2008 Share So what's his claim to fame then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyOwl Posted February 26, 2008 Share He's the dude on Supercycling that always does those DIY things. But he seems to be an expert on just about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted February 26, 2008 Share Can't think of any cases where he has been wrong though, but then, he is a Wits Engineering graduate IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Break Posted February 26, 2008 Share Oh right. Well that gives me new insight then. Thanks! An expert is normally the term given to someone who really knows a hell of a lot, including the truth, about a subject and is given this title by others who are either an expert themselves or close to it. So I must ask the question: Is he an expert by public opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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