Schwalbe & Syntace introduce dual-chamber tyres for ultra low pressures

[Capricorn]

After enhancing the enduro experience with their top performing Super Gravity technology, the guys at Schwabe prove themselves innovative again: Together with Syntace, they developed a new tire system that enables extremely low pressures – and therefore ultimate grip – without increasing the danger of snakebites. The trick: two different air chambers.

http://enduro-mtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Schwalbe-Magic-Mary-first-ride-new-tire-system-air-chamber-luft-kammer-780x520.jpg

No difference from the outside, big difference inside: new Schwalbe tires with two chamber system.

 

Each tire is split into two sections, both need no tube. The outer ring, directly under the tread, is intended to be filled with 1 bar (15 psi) or less to create the best grip possible. The inner ring – facing the rim – on the other hand, should have higher pressures to prevent dents in the rim and provide the tire with enough stability for aggressive cornering.

 

The combination of two different pressures creates a certain kind of a progressive resistance when the tire is compressed – a great idea with lots of potential in our opinion. Schwalbe plans to introduce the new system to its enduro and gravity lineup first, later it will be available for lighter tires too. Apropos weight: According to Schwalbe, the dual chamber system increases the weight by only 200 grams – so compared to a standard tube (about 190 grams) its nearly no added weight. Of course you’ll need a rim with holes for two valves. Syntace will offer them.

We can hardly wait to get our hands on the new tires and will provide you a full review as soon as possible – so watch this space!

sauce

Edited February 8, 2014 by Capricorn

[Capricorn]

Some moto-influence there for sure if one looks at the nuetech tubliss core system.

 

http://brpmoto.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Nuetech_Tubliss__4c48bd64e4ae0.jpg

 

 

I must say, the Super Gravity stuff works incredibly well in terms of low pressures and supportive sidewalls. Will be interesting to see what the new stuff does on the trail. That said, having to buy new rims as well? hmm, ya maybe i'll see-ish.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Capricorn

[TALUS]

Extra 200g only. Maybe not so much. But tubeless dont get snakebites either. A solution for a UK problem? PS. I know nothing about enduro or gravity - might be a stupid comment.

Edited February 8, 2014 by TALUS

[Super_mil]

The Nu-tech sytem works really (I find) for dirt bikes and you can run very low pressures (0.5-0.7bar), but I can't imagine this will transfer to MTB well. I don't think the sidewalls willl be strong enough TBH. It seems like they are creating a solution for a pproblem that does not exist, since MTB already has tubless pretty much sorted.

That said, I'm interested to see how this develops and the price point of the dual chamber tyres.

[Capricorn]

i can understand where the guys are coming, especially if you take into account elite level world cup speeds.They love the grip, but you cant' finish the race on a broken rim, or a damaged rim that causes the bead to unseat.

 

So if they can create stiffer sidewalls without a weight penalty, while simulatneously offering very low pressure to increase contact patch, then I'm game! but damn, the thought of new rims?!??! uuurgh..

[NicoBoshoff]

The big question is: Is this thread Enduro?

[Capricorn]

The big question is: Is this thread Enduro?

 

lolwut?! u no make sense

Edited February 8, 2014 by Capricorn

[Super_mil]

Yeah but even the really soft trial compound MX tyres don't do so well with the Nu Tech system (they cut at the rim) and super low pressures.

My personal feeling is those side walls will have to be so thick that the weight penalty may not be worth the slightly lower pressures OR you'd you'd run simmilar pressures to normal tubeless tyres, but the high pressure internal chamber will simply act as a bead lock to prevent burping.

[Capricorn]

Pinkbike has a first-ride write-up on the new tyre system:

 

Schwalbe is making some big claims of the new dual chamber system, and it's obvious that they've been quite happy with its performance during the development phase. They told us that all of the testers involved have been thrilled about the possibilities that the design presents:

 

• With 14.5 psi / 1bar, the tire grip is gigantic. The contact surface is very large and the tires seldom, if ever, slide on loose ground. Even on the roughest terrain, the tires literally stick to the ground.

 

• The tire is the most sensitive cushioning element on the bike. The extra cushioning and traction in the case of low air pressure lead to much better control over the bike and allow distinctly higher speeds.

 

 

• And all this without the risk of pinch flats. Dented rims are also a thing of the past. Consequently, much lighter tires can be used even for the toughest conditions. What is more, the additional air chamber has excellent emergency running characteristics.

 

On the Trail

 

This last week Schwalbe pulled together something more like an informal gathering of the bike press than a full on product launch: there were no powerpoint presentations, no goodie bags and no thumb drives loaded with product imagery - just good old fashioned shuttling on some of Europe's best winter trails.

 

We started riding on day one with 1.9 bar in our tires front and rear. That's 27.5 psi, so about what I would expect to inflate a tubeless tire to for a day of shuttling. The first couple of runs were fun, the tires felt good and no-one flatted, despite the rock-strewn track we were riding. After two runs the Schwalbe engineers dropped the pressure to 1.2 bar front, 1.4 bar rear, which works out as 17 and 20 psi. Chances are, you'd never run that low of pressure on purpose in a traditional system, even with the thickest casings you could find - the tire would roll from side to side, and the risk of pinching or burping would be too great. With Schwalbe's new system, it didn't feel particularly strange, and in fact the first place I really noticed it was under heavy braking - the extra traction you gain when the tire is able to spread wide across the trail and doesn't skip over bumps meant rethinking the braking points I'd worked out on my first two runs.

 

 

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10591012/p4pb10591012.jpg

Normally you'd think twice about ripping into a berm with 17 psi in your tire, but with the stability of a two chamber system and a wide rim, you really didn't think twice. And Nico Lau is FAST - he's going to have a big year in 2014.

 

 

Through flat corners the lower pressure felt good, but pushing through sandy ruts felt strange - the tire felt like it wanted to catch the edge more than it did at a higher pressure. It's safe to say, though, that having flown in from a particularly wet British winter, dry, sandy ruts aren't something I've ridden much recently, so this could well be something you'd work around.

 

So, were there any troubles during the two days we spent riding the double chamber system? On my third run on the lower pressure, I hit a rock really hard and felt the rear suspension bottom in a way you'd normally associate with a pinch flat. I pumped through the next couple of compressions and was surprised to find the tire holding pressure. At the bottom of the trail, I gave the rear tire the thumb test and found it considerably harder than the front - something had happened when I hit the rock, but the tire hadn't flatted, and if anything, it had gained pressure. I pushed the Schwalbe representatives over lunch to find out what had happened but they remained tight-lipped. On day two, Markus Hachmeyer, Schwalbe's Senior Product Manager, told me that the inner chamber had been incorrectly seated and the impact had forced air from that high pressure chamber into the low pressure main chamber. If this was a race run, I'd have been pretty happy to finish with an extra 10 psi more in my tire at the finish line rather than a flat thanks to an impact like that. This also shows that, just like with a standard tube or tubeless layout, proper setup is key.

 

 

Despite a distinct lack of details, it seems the system provides many of the benefits of a lower volume tire - more stability at low pressures, more small bump compliance thanks to the lower pressure - with the advantages of a larger volume tire, like the reduced risk of a pinch flat and a broader contact patch. Even if you do flat the outer chamber, the inner chamber, which occupies a much smaller volume that a traditional inner tube, will retain high pressure and allow the rider to finish their run with the tire firmly secured to the rim.

 

Pinksauce

[Capricorn]

Vital also has a blurb up, and this interesting observation on the following pic of Stevie Smith:

http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/2014/02/08/full_s1600_slideshow_photo_1350803212_656071.jpg?1391889215

Schwalbe rider Steve Smith's winning bike from the 2012 Hafjell World Cup had two valve stems as well. Could a prototype have been in use way back then? It's certainly possible, and we expect to see more World Cup and Enduro riders on the system in 2014.

 

http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/2014/02/08/full_SchwalbeDualChamber_103315.jpg?1391888791

 

Vitalsauce

Edited February 8, 2014 by Capricorn

[Warren_G]

http://www.vitalmtb....om-Schwalbe,219

http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/2014/02/08/full_Nuetech_Flyer_1_596192.jpg?1391889266

 

http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/2014/02/08/full_SchwalbeDualChamber_103315.jpg?1391888791

Edited February 10, 2014 by Admin
Merged with existing thread

[Warren_G]

http://singletrackwo...-chamber-tyres/ Edited February 11, 2014 by Warren_G

[MTBc]

wow, awesome. guessing there's a slight weight gain in exchange for a bit more robustness.

 

i'm still keen on my idea of building air locks into a frame that you can pump co2 into for use as an integrated bomb.

[(Deon)]

i'm still keen on my idea of building air locks into a frame that you can pump co2 into for use as an integrated bomb.

 

Cool idea.. but would it not be better to fill with helium for a lighter bike?

[Capricorn]

warren G: the first time u tried posting this, admin moved it to the original thread. so if this one also goes missing, you know where to find it

[MTBc]

Cool idea.. but would it not be better to fill with helium for a lighter bike?

 

To get geeky on this: at high pressure, helium would be denser than the surrounding atmosphere. CO2 has a molar mass of around 44g/mole, while He is 4 - so while it would still add weight to the bike, He would add 1/10th of the weight. Not sure how many moles would be required to fill a tyre.