LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate)

[rouxtjie]

Not available for Campy?

Is that a good or bad thing...struggling to read with no emoti

[V12man]

Not available for Campy?

 

Does not seem so

 

http://www.stagescycling.com/stagespower-models

[Cyclewizz]

Not following a specific plan other than to do miles on roadbike. Indoor wattbike sessions twice a week for interval training.

 

Where do you do your wattbike sessions ?

[Cyclewizz]

I'm sure that I read somewhere that Stages only works on aluminium cranks ( ??? )

 

Hence the lack of availability for Campy.

[Jakkals.]

Its not available for campag or any other carbon cranks as the flex of carbon arent the same each time, however aluminium have been proven to have the same kind of stress every time power is applied.

[jcza]

Where do you do your wattbike sessions ?

 

Didata Campus (http://wattlab.co.za/)

[BarHugger]

Before falling into the trap of paralysis by analysis and being the first to acknowledge that I do not have a professorship in anatomy and physiology, my understanding of the OP are as follows:

 

LTHR (Lactate Heart Rate Threshold) is but only one of the various physiological indicators that can be used to objectively quantify the stress being placed on the body. Some of the others include heart rate, breathing rate, temperature and even the ratio between oxygen (O₂) consumption and carbon dioxide production (CO₂) (ventilation). All these physiological indicators act similar to a vehicle’s “rev counter”......the more you want out of the engine, the higher the revs. You have an optimal rev range where the vehicle is functioning optimally, sustained functioning below and above that range can result damage to the engine.

 

A further general understanding of each component is necessary to determine its value as an indicator (measuring gauge). In simple terms:

 

Heart rate: The heart is just a pump that makes sure that enough fuel (oxygenated blood) gets to the engines (muscles) responsible for the movement. No oxygen, no performance. If the muscles start to increase their activity they need more fuel at a quicker rate. The heart does this by increasing heart rate and thus delivering a higher volume of blood per time unit. Except for delivery of “high octane” blood, it also plays a role in the removal of metabolites and waste products. Any physical activity that increase in intensity is associated with an increase in heart rate.....and thanks to technology it is easily measured.....Polar, Garmin, Suunto, etc. This is currently being used as a quick and convenient way to determine and quantify the stress being placed on the body, which has led to the development of training zones based on heart rate.

 

Lactate: The most villainised and misunderstood component of physiological performance. When skeletal muscles are subjected to gradually increasing workloads, their metabolic demands will eventually exceed those that can be delivered solely by the aerobic (presence of O₂) metabolism. To meet these increased needs, anaerobic metabolism occurs with glucose being metabolised.

 

Lactate is the final product of anaerobic (biochemical pathway that produces energy from the breakdown of carbohydrates in the absence of O₂) glycolysis (sometimes referred to as the anaerobic metabolism). If insufficient O₂ (as in high intensity strenuous activities) is available for complete fuel breakdown in the cells, a small amount of energy can be released with glucose conversion to an intermediate substance called pyruvic acid. Glycolysis breaks down glucose and forms pyruvate with the production of two molecules of ATP (muscle cell fuel). In turn, pyruvic acid can be converted into lactic acid. Lactic acid is however not only produced when doing “balls-to-the-wall” activities, but is also produced even during rest.

 

The blood lactate level measured at rest or at any particular level of exercise represents an indication of which energy pathway (aerobic or anaerobic) is being utilised during that activity. It also indicates a balance between the rate of lactate production and release into the blood and its removal (lactate turnover rate). This turnover rate determines the baseline lactate concentration in blood and can be utilised to indicate if a person is untrained, fit or even overtrained. It can also be used to monitor recovery rates and to what extent recovery has taken place.

 

Lactate concentrations per se are thus dependent on a person’s work capacity, the type of activity and the body’s ability to convert lactate back to energy (which can be optimised with adequate and correct training). Considering the body’s different energy pathways it can indicate if you are using your diesel engine (fats), petrol engine (carbohydrates) or just going straight for the NOS (ATP). An unfit (poorly conditioned) person will immediately use petrol and NOS systems (anaerobic glycolytic system) that will represent itself as high blood lactate concentrations because of the carbohydrate metabolism. This system can support high intensity activity for approximately 2.5 hours......and then the wheels will literally come off due to a very limited glucose storing ability of the body. In summary, blood lactate concentrations is thus only an indication of which energy pathway is primarily used to drive an activity.

 

It should be noted that reference is sometimes made to more than one lactate threshold that can be used in exercise prescription. These are sometimes quantified as a value (i.e. the magical 4mmol/L value), but should rather be identified as a specific change in lactate production dynamics. Well-conditioned endurance athletes have been measured with blood lactate concentrations just above 4mmol/L at more than 90% of maximum heart rate (running on their diesel engine for the most part - aerobic metabolism (fats)). Using the 4mmol/L value as reference in these cases as exercise prescription guideline will be detrimental to the athlete.

 

Ventilation: Ventilatory threshold is sometimes referred to as “the point where the conversation stops”. In general terms it is a point where O₂ consumption and CO₂ production is equal. However, when anaerobic glycolysis provides additional energy with a simultaneous exponential increase in blood lactate concentrations, the production of CO₂ overtakes the consumption of O₂. This is also accompanied by an increase in breathing rate (also known as sucking air) to get rid of the CO₂.

 

Allthough not all inclusive, these parameters can be measured by making use of a graded exercise test and specialised equipment (almost like dyna-tuning your car). If it is done in a laboratory setting, precise measuring equipment can be used in a controlled environment. Specific to cycling, The Monrach stationary bike can be utilised to precisely control and set the various work stages (measured in Watts) during the test. The test results obtained in the laboratory setting will indicate to what extent you have sufficient work capacity (the size of the engine – Kia Picanto or Porsche GTR3), how efficient the engine is and to what extent you are making use of specific energy pathways (the size of the fuel tank - diesel, petrol or NOS).

 

Information like this regarding your engine’s strengths and weaknesses can help you plan and structure your training more effectively. If you burn NOS for one serious climb (that looks impressive) at the start of a race, you can just as well pack up and go home. Feeling good and giving it carrots up to half way (because of carbohydrate metabolism), only to find the tank empty for the rest of the race, is a problem. You need to fine tune the engine. If you are doing “short” events of less than 2.5 h your training will look far different form multi-stage events. Speed, efficiency and consistency win races.....it is how you use the information and indicators (heart rate, lactate, power production, ventilation, etc) in your exercise plan that will determine how specific you prepare for an event. Training with a powermeter and trying to reach the big values might mean that you are conditioning your carbohydrate metabolism (going for the burn) while neglecting your base. Similarly, only doing LSD training and not pushing the limits will make you a good slow rider....pushing your bike up the first serious incline. The training principle of specificity also needs to be considered......TRAIN THE WAY YOU PLAY!

 

The question is: “Are you only good for one event (sprint, hill climb, long distance) or can you sustain it?” It does not help you can reach the numbers (power production, Watts/kg, speed, cadence, etc) but you cannot sustain it. All engines can rev high - problem is that some will just break quicker than others. Determine your breakpoint and fix it.

 

PS: Come race day forget everything and listen to ignore what your body “tells” you.....together with a good dose of adrenaline and common sense. (fixed)

Edited February 19, 2014 by BarHugger

[usxorf]

Why introduce subjectivity in the PS... I don't trust what my body tells me. Shut up legs!

[BarHugger]

Why introduce subjectivity in the PS... I don't trust what my body tells me. Shut up legs!

 

 

Trying to fix the PS section......listen should actually be ignore........its an ego thing

[usxorf]

Can always push harder... until you can't. I like Noakes' central governer concept in that aspect.

[BarHugger]

Can always push harder... until you can't. I like Noakes' central governer concept in that aspect.

 

True,true......you can only become so fit (work capacity).....then it is all about recovery.....and how quickly you can do it after fatigue.

[FARMBIKE]

Before falling into the trap of paralysis by analysis and being the first to acknowledge that I do not have a professorship in anatomy and physiology, my understanding of the OP are as follows:

 

LTHR (Lactate Heart Rate Threshold) is but only one of the various physiological indicators that can be used to objectively quantify the stress being placed on the body. Some of the others include heart rate, breathing rate, temperature and even the ratio between oxygen (O₂) consumption and carbon dioxide production (CO₂) (ventilation). All these physiological indicators act similar to a vehicle’s “rev counter”......the more you want out of the engine, the higher the revs. You have an optimal rev range where the vehicle is functioning optimally, sustained functioning below and above that range can result damage to the engine.

 

A further general understanding of each component is necessary to determine its value as an indicator (measuring gauge). In simple terms:

 

Heart rate: The heart is just a pump that makes sure that enough fuel (oxygenated blood) gets to the engines (muscles) responsible for the movement. No oxygen, no performance. If the muscles start to increase their activity they need more fuel at a quicker rate. The heart does this by increasing heart rate and thus delivering a higher volume of blood per time unit. Except for delivery of “high octane” blood, it also plays a role in the removal of metabolites and waste products. Any physical activity that increase in intensity is associated with an increase in heart rate.....and thanks to technology it is easily measured.....Polar, Garmin, Suunto, etc. This is currently being used as a quick and convenient way to determine and quantify the stress being placed on the body, which has led to the development of training zones based on heart rate.

 

Lactate: The most villainised and misunderstood component of physiological performance. When skeletal muscles are subjected to gradually increasing workloads, their metabolic demands will eventually exceed those that can be delivered solely by the aerobic (presence of O₂) metabolism. To meet these increased needs, anaerobic metabolism occurs with glucose being metabolised.

 

Lactate is the final product of anaerobic (biochemical pathway that produces energy from the breakdown of carbohydrates in the absence of O₂) glycolysis (sometimes referred to as the anaerobic metabolism). If insufficient O₂ (as in high intensity strenuous activities) is available for complete fuel breakdown in the cells, a small amount of energy can be released with glucose conversion to an intermediate substance called pyruvic acid. Glycolysis breaks down glucose and forms pyruvate with the production of two molecules of ATP (muscle cell fuel). In turn, pyruvic acid can be converted into lactic acid. Lactic acid is however not only produced when doing “balls-to-the-wall” activities, but is also produced even during rest.

 

The blood lactate level measured at rest or at any particular level of exercise represents an indication of which energy pathway (aerobic or anaerobic) is being utilised during that activity. It also indicates a balance between the rate of lactate production and release into the blood and its removal (lactate turnover rate). This turnover rate determines the baseline lactate concentration in blood and can be utilised to indicate if a person is untrained, fit or even overtrained. It can also be used to monitor recovery rates and to what extent recovery has taken place.

 

Lactate concentrations per se are thus dependent on a person’s work capacity, the type of activity and the body’s ability to convert lactate back to energy (which can be optimised with adequate and correct training). Considering the body’s different energy pathways it can indicate if you are using your diesel engine (fats), petrol engine (carbohydrates) or just going straight for the NOS (ATP). An unfit (poorly conditioned) person will immediately use petrol and NOS systems (anaerobic glycolytic system) that will represent itself as high blood lactate concentrations because of the carbohydrate metabolism. This system can support high intensity activity for approximately 2.5 hours......and then the wheels will literally come off due to a very limited glucose storing ability of the body. In summary, blood lactate concentrations is thus only an indication of which energy pathway is primarily used to drive an activity.

 

It should be noted that reference is sometimes made to more than one lactate threshold that can be used in exercise prescription. These are sometimes quantified as a value (i.e. the magical 4mmol/L value), but should rather be identified as a specific change in lactate production dynamics. Well-conditioned endurance athletes have been measured with blood lactate concentrations just above 4mmol/L at more than 90% of maximum heart rate (running on their diesel engine for the most part - aerobic metabolism (fats)). Using the 4mmol/L value as reference in these cases as exercise prescription guideline will be detrimental to the athlete.

 

Ventilation: Ventilatory threshold is sometimes referred to as “the point where the conversation stops”. In general terms it is a point where O₂ consumption and CO₂ production is equal. However, when anaerobic glycolysis provides additional energy with a simultaneous exponential increase in blood lactate concentrations, the production of CO₂ overtakes the consumption of O₂. This is also accompanied by an increase in breathing rate (also known as sucking air) to get rid of the CO₂.

 

Allthough not all inclusive, these parameters can be measured by making use of a graded exercise test and specialised equipment (almost like dyna-tuning your car). If it is done in a laboratory setting, precise measuring equipment can be used in a controlled environment. Specific to cycling, The Monrach stationary bike can be utilised to precisely control and set the various work stages (measured in Watts) during the test. The test results obtained in the laboratory setting will indicate to what extent you have sufficient work capacity (the size of the engine – Kia Picanto or Porsche GTR3), how efficient the engine is and to what extent you are making use of specific energy pathways (the size of the fuel tank - diesel, petrol or NOS).

 

Information like this regarding your engine’s strengths and weaknesses can help you plan and structure your training more effectively. If you burn NOS for one serious climb (that looks impressive) at the start of a race, you can just as well pack up and go home. Feeling good and giving it carrots up to half way (because of carbohydrate metabolism), only to find the tank empty for the rest of the race, is a problem. You need to fine tune the engine. If you are doing “short” events of less than 2.5 h your training will look far different form multi-stage events. Speed, efficiency and consistency win races.....it is how you use the information and indicators (heart rate, lactate, power production, ventilation, etc) in your exercise plan that will determine how specific you prepare for an event. Training with a powermeter and trying to reach the big values might mean that you are conditioning your carbohydrate metabolism (going for the burn) while neglecting your base. Similarly, only doing LSD training and not pushing the limits will make you a good slow rider....pushing your bike up the first serious incline. The training principle of specificity also needs to be considered......TRAIN THE WAY YOU PLAY!

 

The question is: “Are you only good for one event (sprint, hill climb, long distance) or can you sustain it?” It does not help you can reach the numbers (power production, Watts/kg, speed, cadence, etc) but you cannot sustain it. All engines can rev high - problem is that some will just break quicker than others. Determine your breakpoint and fix it.

 

PS: Come race day forget everything and listen to ignore what your body “tells” you.....together with a good dose of adrenaline and common sense. (fixed)

 

BarHugger,

Thanks for your reply. Appreciate that you brought it back after it was mostly hijacked and it totally moved away from the topic. Also that you have put everything in perspective for the average guy to understand !

 

I realized that it is all about attitude..... I am not a racing snake and I do not own a roadbike. (and never have and never will) I am just a plain cyclist (mtb'er) to whom racing,power,time and weight is not important. What is important is my health and competing against my own capabilities.

 

I think there is a lot of us on this forum .......

 

It was amazing to see how I struggled to get this view across, well at least you also saw that, and that is what we... the "not so serious" cyclist, are appreciating.

 

I mererly wanted to understand if LTHR is tool that can be used to manage myself on a ride- be it training or in an organised race. I needed to know this, not to become fitter or stronger of faster but to manage my body during exercise.

 

Commen Sense - the best answer !

 

Thanks for your input !!

 

PS: I do have a heart condition, so it is important for me, from a lot of different perspectives

Edited February 19, 2014 by FARMBIKE

[V12man]

BarHugger,

Thanks for your reply. Appreciate that you brought it back after it was mostly hijacked and it totally moved away from the topic. Also that you have put everything in perspective for the average guy to understand !

 

I realized that it is all about attitude..... I am not a racing snake and I do not own a roadbike. (and never have and never will) I am just a plain cyclist (mtb'er) to whom racing,power,time and weight is not important. What is important is my health and competing against my own capabilities.

 

I think there is a lot of us on this forum .......

 

It was amazing to see how I struggled to get this view across, well at least you also saw that, and that is what we... the "not so serious" cyclist, are appreciating.

 

I mererly wanted to understand if LTHR is tool that can be used to manage myself on a ride- be it training or in an organised race. I needed to know this, not to become fitter or stronger of faster but to manage my body during exercise.

 

Commen Sense - the best answer !

 

Thanks for your input !!

 

PS: I do have a heart condition, so it is important for me, from a lot of different perspectives

 

I suspect you should ignore anything but your cardiologists SPECIFIC advice on a maximum heart rate to achieve during exercise, as well as maximum and recommended exercise times and frequencies - if you have not been given those, ask him/her for that.

 

Learn to use, and set your heart rate monitors alarm to that number, and stay below it - it will almost certainly be well below your LTHR - which is not recommended if you have most heart pathologies/conditions.

 

So - as to your original question - is it useful to you - NO, it's not - your cardiac pathology is MUCH more important.

 

MOST important is - FOLLOW your cardiologists instructions to the letter... medical miracles are few and far between..... and look after yourself and your family.

Edited February 19, 2014 by V12man

[BarHugger]

Hi Farmer

 

Pleasure....I could have put down a little bit more, but that would just be boring. With the analogies used in my post, some of the athletes I work with call me the "human panelbeater".......had to straighten some chassis and rebuild engines.

 

I can understand your approach and inquiry.....I find myself in the same boat. We are like good old S-class Mercedes Benz tjorre.....takes a time to warm up and get to speed, but once there it can be maintained. Just need a good tune-up now and then. Not this new stuff where you need a degree in computer science just to service the car....rather just a good old mechanical approach and keeping things simple. Sort the crucial 20% out and the remaining 80% will look after itself.

 

Enjoy your rides!

 

PS and Edit: THE V12 is giving good advice....PLEASE follow instructions.

Edited February 19, 2014 by BarHugger

[BarHugger]

D-P

Edited February 19, 2014 by BarHugger

[camelman]

Went for a test in Switzerland, and did the Lactate Threshold Test. It was very interesting, as the HR goes up with your power output. Both have a very linear curve. Thus, you will be able to train on HR if you lack a power meter to better certain areas of your riding. This is all very dependent on how tired you are or if you are sick, but it beats spending a few thousand rands on a power meter.

 

What it tells you is where your body starts producing more lactate than it can get rid of. This point was at 4.5 mmol/L. So essentially what you want to do is move that point up. For me that point was at 220W and by and at approximately 140bpm. Knowing that I would need to train in certain heart rate zones to move that point to say 250-270W. A sports scientist will be able to help work out a program for you to increase that.

 

If you want to know what a typical result looks like, send me a PM and I will send you a copy of the data that you can have a look at.