here's trouble - 2007 cannondales

[rock]

The coolest part is you don't need to take the wheel off to replace the tube or tyre.

 

ja cos releasing those QR skewers takes so much effort ?

[TheLegend]

 

 

What a load of bXllox 

 

What a very objective and balanced statement of fact ..

 

For what it's worth' date=' my (subjective) opinion on the Cannonadale product (Six13 and Tandem) is that they are probably the best made, designed and finished frames I have ever ridden (My last frame was a Litespeed Ghisallo and the Six13 kills it)

[/quote']

 

good you are happy with your bike.

 

that still doesn't change anything about the individualism that has never existed with cannondales. they produce their bikes in big scale and they are sold off the rack like this. probably most other companies would also like to have such a big sale but luckily only few do and so people with too much money will go on buying the cannondales...

 

The only way to avoid buying a mass produced frame is to go to a bespoke frame builder and commision one. Any other bike, even the so called boutique brands are no more individual than a Cannondale and in many cases far less so.

 

How you go from large volume sales, to people with too much money buying them is beyond me, maybe you need to look at your logic here

 

i think you don't understand. what i said and will say further is what i observe - maybe it's not like that in SA but certainly in cerntral europe:

people with money but little knowledge about bikes buy cannondales just because someone tells them they are good. along goes the cannondale team kit ad ready is the slow ou on a bike. just because of that there is too many cannondales which are not so uitstekend good as one might think because of the sold numbers. people just go with the flow - this for the lack of individualism and mass production.

and you can call it bullocks again if you like. then come and visit me and I'll show you around a bit!

 

[steve]

Yes the obvious part that you all miss is that the car you drive also features lefty technology or maybe the lefty uses automotive technology! The wheels of your car is also only attached to the rest of the body in one place. BMW shaft driven motorcycles same thing!

 

I disagree, but simply put there's a 'lefty' and a 'righty' technology on each side of the car to balance things. However, if you look carefully at a car you will find a thing called a 'lower control arm' or 'wishbone' that tranmits braking and acceleration forces into the chassis legs. As far as steering goes, each wheel is connected to the opposite . If it was such good technology how come it isn't put to use on motorcycles

 

The shaft driven BMW issue is a completely different issue as the single sided swingarm doesn't deal with any steering. Most braking forces are on the frontwheel and the acceleration forces are compensated by the shaft running inside the swingarm tube. 

 

 issues and only works in an up and down arc and does not have huge forward aft movements to cope with.

[BikeMax]

 

What a load of bXllox 

 

What a very objective and balanced statement of fact ..

 

For what it's worth' date=' my (subjective) opinion on the Cannonadale product (Six13 and Tandem) is that they are probably the best made, designed and finished frames I have ever ridden (My last frame was a Litespeed Ghisallo and the Six13 kills it)

[/quote']

good you are happy with your bike.

that still doesn't change anything about the individualism that has never existed with cannondales. they produce their bikes in big scale and they are sold off the rack like this. probably most other companies would also like to have such a big sale but luckily only few do and so people with too much money will go on buying the cannondales...

 

The only way to avoid buying a mass produced frame is to go to a bespoke frame builder and commision one. Any other bike, even the so called boutique brands are no more individual than a Cannondale and in many cases far less so.

 

How you go from large volume sales, to people with too much money buying them is beyond me, maybe you need to look at your logic here

i think you don't understand. what i said and will say further is what i observe - maybe it's not like that in SA but certainly in cerntral europe:
people with money but little knowledge about bikes buy cannondales just because someone tells them they are good. along goes the cannondale team kit ad ready is the slow ou on a bike. just because of that there is too many cannondales which are not so uitstekend good as one might think because of the sold numbers. people just go with the flow - this for the lack of individualism and mass production.
and you can call it bullocks again if you like. then come and visit me and I'll show you around a bit!

 

I am from Europe so no need to show me round thanks

 

All I can do is reiterate that you have given us absolutely nothing to back up what you say (first it was a fact, now it is an observation)

 

There are far more high profile and widely marketed brands than Cannondale that do seem to attract buyers based on brand only (Trek and Cervelo come to mind) but Cannondale has always marketed itself as a small but high quality manufacturer - that has always been their niche market.

[TheLegend]

well, then i have not to comment?

my statements remain!

 

[Groot Lem]

And the fastest MTB ride EVER in the Argus was done on a Cannondale. Before the days of shocks. Guess who? and the time?

[TheLegend]

millar? 

[linnega]

Bikemax - don't think that island (or the pair of them) qualifies as Europe in most people's eyes. 

 

And just a comment on Chinese manufacture.  Most manufacture is low tech, highly labour intensive.  In China and Taiwan, people are cheaper than machines - for now.  Their amazing productivity is more to do with hard work (even in apalling working conditions) and dedication to produce the best products they can produce.  The Taiwan plants are slightly different especially with areas they specialise in (like carbon bicycle manufacture), where years of R&D and investment in the best technology has allowed for more technologically advanced manufacturing processes.  Someone made the comment about only the advanced products being made in Taiwan with the cheap & nasties being made in China.  My apologies - when I refer to China, I am not just talking about the mainland, but also about Taiwan.  Most of the big brands do their composite manufacture exclusively in Taiwan - including Giant, Merida, Scott, Specialized, Willier, Cannondale (!).  You will probably find the Treks that Giant manufacture are made in mainland China.

 

Agree with Steve about the lefty comment.  Don't think you can compare a 4 wheel design with a two wheel design, in any circumstance.  The forces are simply too different.

 

[GoLefty!!]

On a more serious note!!

 

I've never ridden a Cannondale' date=' but that lefty thing just don't make any engineering sense at all.

 

Surely there must be issues with braking as well as directional stability?

 

We all know that seals are most effective in a cylinder (round) hence round pistons in an engine, pumps are round as well. So, if the fork stanchion is round there would be no way of stopping the wheel flapping around and doing its own thing. If it aint round then the seals are not as efficient or durable as those in conventional forks.

 

As for it being lighter, I can't see that either as the fork stanchion, lower casing etc is all bigger than on a conventional fork. If it does twice the work, it needs to be significantly stronger - and therefore heavier.

 

..........it just don't make no sense and defies all logic, or have I missed something obvious.

[/quote']

 

What is a Lefty? It's a MacPherson strut. At least do some research to get your opinion in focus

Don't make any engineering sense at all....

 

Next time you fly, on the way to the big white bird take a look at the wheels (Thats the fat black and white doughnuts between the bit where you sit and the ground) and see how many legs are holding the wheel in place........errr.............one hey

Then next time you decide to fettle with your cars brakes, please observe how many legs are holding the wheel in place..........er........one.

 

Then, next time you see one of those zooty BMW motorbikes have  look at how many arms are holding the rear wheel in place and I beleive theres a motorbike in their range with a single sided front suspension as well.

 

In fact, and this is a fact, conventional forks as seen on bicycles are the least ingenius solution to holding a wheel in place.

 

Then there was this fellow who commented on Cannondale riders having too much money........whatever dude!

You sound like a very bitter individual. what happened in your life that has resulted in such clever logic?

The fact of the matter is that Specialized, Giant, Scott all charge in  the same ball park and they're made in the lower cost base Taiwan. So who's got too much money?

 

At least with a Cannondale, Titus, Santa Cruz, Intense, you know where your money's gone.

 

And as far as quality control is concerned, I suggest you look a little closer at the welding on the apparently lower cost Specialized to see where the cost cutting has gone them ask yourself why I am paying so much for this...

 

 

 

 

[GoLefty!!]

As for the rest of the comments on braking, sealing etc etc,.....

 

Its clear that you have absolutely no technical background to make the comments you have made.

 

Perhaps it will be a good idea to ask your LBS to show you the insides of a Lefty next time they have one to service. It's far less complicated the it looks and the sealing works better than a Fox.

As for driectional stability.

If you actualy rode one off road with an open mind you'd find the best trail tracking front suspension in the MTB business.

 

 

[Velouria]

What about those upside down Maverick shocks?

[Cruxpearl]

 Go Lefty!!!!

[GoLefty!!]

What about those upside down Maverick shocks?

 

they're.......well...........upside down inmuch the same vein as a Showa Motorcycle race fork.

 

Having the fork upside down reduces unsprung mass which theoretically makes it more sensitive to small bumps while the damping circuit can be set up for bigger hits.

 

All this is engineering and you cn pretty much achieve what you want with each design. Upside down forks just have less compromises and the Left y even fewer since yo don;t have to brace two legs to work together.

Youjust have to prevent precesion of the lower leg and this is achieved by letting a square tube slide on 4 x 22 roller cylindrical roller bearing races (hence 88 needle or cyclindrical bearings as per teh marketing literature), inside a round shaft with a square hole in it.

 

And it's lighter as can be seen by measuring the Lefty against any other 100 to 120mm travel fork.

 

The new Lefty DLR2 SL is the lightest suspension MTB fork at 1226grams. Thats lighter than a S.I.D 80 and about a brazillion g-string times stiffer.

 

In my experience, only people who have not ridden a Lefty critise it.

 

As for "it looks wrong when you're sitting on the bike and riding.."

You should be looking ahead of you. Watching the fork could lead to a terrible accident and this practice is not recommended...

 

 

 

On A side note: I've been riding Lefties for 4 years. In that time I've had zero problems with it. no blown oil seals, no blown damping cartridge, the bearings are as good as new an it's still one of thel ightest forsk around.

The DLR2 on my Rush 3000 is simply brilliant.

In the same time most of my friends have replaced their forks, have complained of blown seals on their Fox forks, heavy MArzocchi's or simply ineffective RockShox. (Admittedly the new REBA is excellent!)

 

The old saying; "Don;t knock it till you've tried it." applies

[steve]

I did say I've never ridden one, but this is about the fact that the 'lefty' design seems to defy engineering logic.

 

Go Lefty implies that a car's front wheel is held in place by a McPherson strut located at the top only whereas in fact it is located at the bottom as well - otherwise it would not cope with fore-and-aft forces generated by braking, acceleration and even steering.

 

If the 'lefty' design was so brilliant, then why hasn't it been copied onto motorcycles?

 

 

[TitusTi]

Hey GoLefty, you having a fun time with the Philistines here?

[Velouria]

It is quite difficult to argue with you GoLefty - you certainly seem to know your stuff.

 

I think it is just jealousy. If Scott or Giant and come up with the Lefty, and not Cannondale, every one would be singing its praises. We all love to hate a Cannondale (and I used to ride one).