Performance enhancing substances among amateurs

[pe3nguin]

 

So if you are getting your knicker in a knot about age group (VET) doping you are as much a loser as the Vet that dopes to win.

You may be correct. I am probably a loser. But I am not a cheat, i do not advocative for cheating, I am not an outspoken cheat apologist. But if you assume my knickers were knotted for attempting to better understand your point of view, then sure, consider me flustered.

 

I wasn't advocating for any drug authority to step in. I am more worried about your attitude that cheating at any level is acceptable. You know, if its okay for vets to cheat, then surely its cool for u10 hockey girls to cheat because you know, nothing is at stake.

[Paddaman]

You, thats a little rough. Maybe some people are not as "ok" with cheating as what you are.

I am not OK with cheating.  I just feel that if you are going to put your reputation, health and financial wealth on the line for something as insignificant as an amateur  "age group" category win, then you are a special kind of stupid. 

 

Also to insist that immense financial and human resources are mobilised to catch such a selfish person, is only feeding that person's sense of self importance. Remember, drug free sport costs money (which in turn translates into bigger enter fees and smaller prize purses). 

 

A simple solution to balance cost with impact is to simply state that ALL prizes and honours will be awarded only after a comprehensive drug test of all recipients.  So no placing = no dope test.

 

It also is rather interesting how we all complain, but when it comes to naming and shaming, there is a wall of silence from the fellow competitors.  We want policing (at great expense) but we do not want to be the policemen ourselves.......

 

 

 

So, doping will remain a part of our sport, and in many cases it is largely irrelevant to our enjoyment of the sport activities.

[Paddaman]

You may be correct. I am probably a loser. But I am not a cheat, i do not advocative for cheating, I am not an outspoken cheat apologist. But if you assume my knickers were knotted for attempting to better understand your point of view, then sure, consider me flustered.

 

I wasn't advocating for any drug authority to step in. I am more worried about your attitude that cheating at any level is acceptable. You know, if its okay for vets to cheat, then surely its cool for u10 hockey girls to cheat because you know, nothing is at stake.

It is never OK to cheat, but there is also a pragmatic balance between what can be enforced and when a more subtle approach is required.  To attempt to make a race like the Argus drug free is simply impossible.  To make an example of a 60 year old, 6 hr finisher who took pain killers, is also counter productive.  What is required is a sense of balance.  It is obvious that those that are competing for provincial and national honours will require more attention than the afore mentioned 60 year old.

[Patchelicious]

I am not OK with cheating.  I just feel that if you are going to put your reputation, health and financial wealth on the line for something as insignificant as an amateur  "age group" category win, then you are a special kind of stupid. 

 

Also to insist that immense financial and human resources are mobilised to catch such a selfish person, is only feeding that person's sense of self importance. Remember, drug free sport costs money (which in turn translates into bigger enter fees and smaller prize purses). 

 

A simple solution to balance cost with impact is to simply state that ALL prizes and honours will be awarded only after a comprehensive drug test of all recipients.  So no placing = no dope test.

 

It also is rather interesting how we all complain, but when it comes to naming and shaming, there is a wall of silence from the fellow competitors.  We want policing (at great expense) but we do not want to be the policemen ourselves.......

 

 

 

So, doping will remain a part of our sport, and in many cases it is largely irrelevant to our enjoyment of the sport activities.

Buddy, if there was admissible proof, trust me it would be submitted. 

 

I am not sure why you are on the attack here, I love how those who are wanting and discussing a cleaner sport are being made our as the dickheads losers here.

 

Edit: Small correction for accuracy. 

[Patchelicious]

It is never OK to cheat, but there is also a pragmatic balance between what can be enforced and when a more subtle approach is required.  To attempt to make a race like the Argus drug free is simply impossible.  To make an example of a 60 year old, 6 hr finisher who took pain killers, is also counter productive.  What is required is a sense of balance.  It is obvious that those that are competing for provincial and national honours will require more attention than the afore mentioned 60 year old.

By this logic we should ok with low level corruption too.

 

Listen guys, lets all just pay the JMPB bribes... its the pragmatic balance.

[pe3nguin]

It is never OK to cheat, but there is also a pragmatic balance between what can be enforced and when a more subtle approach is required.  To attempt to make a race like the Argus drug free is simply impossible.  To make an example of a 60 year old, 6 hr finisher who took pain killers, is also counter productive.  What is required is a sense of balance.  It is obvious that those that are competing for provincial and national honours will require more attention than the afore mentioned 60 year old.

But who is suggesting that the 60 year old back marker needs to be tested. I thought we were talking about vets. Now vets means vets racing categories, not veterans of life in general. If you race vets, pay for a domestic racing license, then you are there to compete. You aren't the type of guy who rides his bike once a year around Table Mountain, who just happens to have taken two too many pain pills, the morning of.

 

Anyone with a racing license is the type of person who training hard, racing harder and agreeing to a social contract with other racers that they are doing so in a fair manner. Your original assertion was that life can be busy and so if you happen to take a banned substance - whoopsie, no harm no foul. But yes, big party foul.

[pe3nguin]

dickheads

 

He said losers ;..; why you gotta be so mean

[Paddaman]

By this logic we should ok with low level corruption too.

 

Listen guys, lets all just pay the JMPB bribes... its the pragmatic balance.

Here is the slippery slope.

No-one speeds

No-one jumps a red light

No-one ignores stop streets

No-one litters

Everyone pays their taxes

Everyone is honest......

 

The challenge is that the world is grey, not black and white.

 

When implementing any policy, there needs to be an upfront expectation of compliance and  a clear idea of outcome vs cost.

 

So do we want drug free professional sport, drug free amateur sport and/or drug free recreational sport?

 

Also how much do we want it to cost in terms of finance , technology and man power?

For professional sport where there is millions of US$ at stake in terms of betting, careers ext then WADA regimes are possible.

For recreational sport where there is NO financial gain to be protected then "drug free" is a pipe dream.

 

Just a reality check.

[Paddaman]

But who is suggesting that the 60 year old back marker needs to be tested. I thought we were talking about vets. Now vets means vets racing categories, not veterans of life in general. If you race vets, pay for a domestic racing license, then you are there to compete. You aren't the type of guy who rides his bike once a year around Table Mountain, who just happens to have taken two too many pain pills, the morning of.

 

Anyone with a racing license is the type of person who training hard, racing harder and agreeing to a social contract with other racers that they are doing so in a fair manner. Your original assertion was that life can be busy and so if you happen to take a banned substance - whoopsie, no harm no foul. But yes, big party foul.

Agree.  Buy the licence, live by the code.

[Quagga]

Snip

Impossible to take flu medication? - Why are you competing if you have the friggin flu?

Snip

 

I don't think you understand it is not about competing if you have flu. 

Do you have any idea how long AFTER you have taken flu medication it can still be detected in your system?

I think what Paddaman means is that now he has to look at what he gets from the doc for flu etc and also balance work and training just to finish a race.

 

Doping it bad,  if done to gain and advantage. 

Is it doping if an non poduim amateur takes flu or pain meds for his/her torn calf and then get tested when finishing 900th in a 3day race? Then the hub goes "even dopped up he still only get in a 900th" 

[Quagga]

But who is suggesting that the 60 year old back marker needs to be tested. 

Not what is suggested, but what has happend in the past

[pe3nguin]

 

I think what Paddaman means is that now he has to look at what he gets from the doc for flu etc and also balance work and training just to finish a race.

 

If you wanna race? Yes, 100%. How can this even be a debate? If you are racing, you should be checking what you put in your body.

 

This boggles my mind. 

[Quagga]

If you wanna race? Yes, 100%. How can this even be a debate? If you are racing, you should be checking what you put in your body.

 

This boggles my mind. 

So you say that all 30 000 Argus riders MUST be 100% clean? Or is ok for the dude who took sudafed 2 months before to still ride for cancer?

 

EDIT

AND remember that number 10412 can be tested and backmarkers HAS been tested before

 

Edit

also we are not talking about the okes RACING we are talking about the people getting tested just doing the ride....

[Paddaman]

If you wanna race? Yes, 100%. How can this even be a debate? If you are racing, you should be checking what you put in your body.

 

This boggles my mind. 

The biggest challenge is to get the doctor to UNDERSTAND that even as an old toppie, you are still an active athlete.  DOCTORS don't always check what they prescribe against the WADA list.  Also some amateur athletes (and pro's) have been caught self medicating on Ouma's family flu doepa, that contains lists of banned stuff (none of which are listed anywhere).  

 

However, do the crime, pay the time.  When you buy the licence or sign up for a national championships, READ THE BL00DY LABEL before swigging the medication.

[Gen]

I don't think you understand it is not about competing if you have flu.

Do you have any idea how long AFTER you have taken flu medication it can still be detected in your system?

I think what Paddaman means is that now he has to look at what he gets from the doc for flu etc and also balance work and training just to finish a race.

 

Doping it bad, if done to gain and advantage.

Is it doping if an non poduim amateur takes flu or pain meds for his/her torn calf and then get tested when finishing 900th in a 3day race? Then the hub goes "even dopped up he still only get in a 900th"

But if you take banned meds for illness or injury then you are doping to gain an advantage because without you would not be able to participate or participate at the level you would like to..

 

BTW I still think it is stupid to try an compete with illness or injury..

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[pe3nguin]

So you say that all 30 000 Argus riders MUST be 100% clean? Or is ok for the dude who took sudafed 2 months before to still ride for cancer?

Errr. Okay, I guess our definition of race is different. You are racing, if you have a...wait for it...domestic racing license. Not to be confused with CSA membership.

 

So no, I would not imagine the fella riding for cancer awareness would need to be tested.