Flat or clipless?

[nickelass]

Using  xt trail pedals on my cross country ,trail bike, and its great for me as you have the choice,either clipped in or out.

I have always ridden rock gardens and the real rough stuff clipped out,but on the open trail I like the feeling of the extra power clipped in.

On my freeride bike its 510 s and flats, (nukeproof ,neutrons) feet feel so planted on my pedals its feels almost as though I am clipped in.

[droenn]

A lot of the arguments for clipless seem to be around being that little bit faster in a competition setting. Fine, if your goal on the bike is to ride as fast as you can, all the time.

 

I'll stick with flats for the time being, I'm still building technique and I don't really ride for fitness (although its a direct consequence), more for fun.

[GoLefty!!]

The argument for clip less is more control in difficult situations or terrain. The improved cadence is a secondary consideration

[rouxtjie]

The argument for clip less is more control in difficult situations or terrain. The improved cadence is a secondary consideration

That....

 

You cant exactly pedal if your feet are doing michael jackson moves below you.

[patches]

the more I read that 57 page article the more I realize its written by an Am rider justifying a choice as science..

 

“The innovative programs that James Wilson provided for me during the 3 years we worked together played a big role in my rapid success at the highest levels of downhill racing.

 

Any rider who wants to get the most out of their abilities should invest in a program from James – it will definitely help you ride faster and with more confidence.”

Aaron Gwin

 

...Just some AM rider justifying his choice? There must be some method to his madness.

[Brian Fantana]

That....

 

You cant exactly pedal if your feet are doing michael jackson moves below you.

 

That is not the case at all when you use a good pedal and shoe combo.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

That is not the case at all when you use a good pedal and shoe combo.

Yep. Indeed. 

[Brian Fantana]

The argument for clip less is more control in difficult situations or terrain. The improved cadence is a secondary consideration

 

 

My experience: In difficult situations and terrain, flats will teach you to flow with your bike through the rough stuff, and thereby make you a smoother rider, which will pay off when you ride clipless again. Sure the first few attempts with flats in difficult terrain will be slower than usual, until your riding style have adapted, and you will be just as fast, but smoother, which might make you even faster when you go to clipless again.

 

As for the cadence.  It all comes back to using the correct pedal and shoe combination.  In my experience there is no disadvantage in terms of cadence between clipless and a good flat pedal/shoe combination.

[marko35s]

Yep. Indeed. 

Ahh but can't you read - science is only proper science when it tells you to go clipless...

[patches]

I ride flats... so my opinion is biased. I do however own clipless, and I can see the benefits in those too. In fact I've been thinking of putting them back on one of my bikes (I haven't used them in nearly 2yrs)

 

But yeah, from a technical riding perspective, all the skills one develops on flats can be applied to cleated riding, and will make one a better rider. (eg. when to drop your heels on rocky terrain so that you control the bike, not the other way around. And lets not forget the bunny-hop vs. 'pronk' debate).

 

But the same cannot necessarily be said for things learnt from cleated riding. eg. just relying on the fact that you're clipped in order to negotiate rough terrain.

 

Yes both have their advantages. Use them together and it will definietly improve ones riding.

 

At the end of the day, to each their own. I just like riding my bike.

[rouxtjie]

I ride flats... so my opinion is biased. I do however own clipless, and I can see the benefits in those too. In fact I've been thinking of putting them back on one of my bikes (I haven't used them in nearly 2yrs)

 

But yeah, from a technical riding perspective, all the skills one develops on flats can be applied to cleated riding, and will make one a better rider. (eg. when to drop your heels on rocky terrain so that you control the bike, not the other way around. And lets not forget the bunny-hop vs. 'pronk' debate).

 

But the same cannot necessarily be said for things learnt from cleated riding. eg. just relying on the fact that you're clipped in order to negotiate rough terrain.

 

Yes both have their advantages. Use them together and it will definietly improve ones riding.

 

At the end of the day, to each their own. I just like riding my bike.

whahahahaaaa "pronk"....my signature move 

[GoLefty!!]

“The innovative programs that James Wilson provided for me during the 3 years we worked together played a big role in my rapid success at the highest levels of downhill racing.

 

Any rider who wants to get the most out of their abilities should invest in a program from James – it will definitely help you ride faster and with more confidence.”

Aaron Gwin

 

...Just some AM rider justifying his choice? There must be some method to his madness.

 

I think the weight of opinion is very much loaded toward the clipless pedal since the vast majority of successful professional riders and amateur riders achieve success with coaches advocating clipless. Maybe in time that will change but none of his "scientific reasoning" is followed by other coaches.

 

No saying his wrong because clearly success with one rider at one point in time had an influence but it's clear that rider had moved on.

 

The idea of learning to pedal with flats is a good one but I don't have hope that it's as applicable to an adult as it is to a child since in adults the level of adaptation is much deduced.

 

The idea of pushing down on the pedals is old and accepted but there are Aldo studies that show the pedaling in circles to be a more efficient method.

 

My view is it's like driving with a safety belt; some people hate belts and others love them. I tend toward the connected feeling and the control clipins provide me. I'd much rather have m feet eps me rescue a tank slapper than get pitched off

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

whahahahaaaa "pronk"....my signature move 

Was mine too, until I got flats! Now I just suck a bit less... 

[Fujiman]

Do I have to comment.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I think the weight of opinion is very much loaded toward the clipless pedal since the vast majority of successful professional riders and amateur riders achieve success with coaches advocating clipless. Maybe in time that will change but none of his "scientific reasoning" is followed by other coaches.

 

No saying his wrong because clearly success with one rider at one point in time had an influence but it's clear that rider had moved on.

 

The idea of learning to pedal with flats is a good one but I don't have hope that it's as applicable to an adult as it is to a child since in adults the level of adaptation is much deduced.

 

The idea of pushing down on the pedals is old and accepted but there are Aldo studies that show the pedaling in circles to be a more efficient method.

 

My view is it's like driving with a safety belt; some people hate belts and others love them. I tend toward the connected feeling and the control clipins provide me. I'd much rather have m feet eps me rescue a tank slapper than get pitched off

I'd actually liken it to driving with an automatic vs manual. Cleats are auto, flats manual. With the manual, you have to learn how and when to change, what the car does at higher revs and how it'll behave in given conditions in certain gears. 

[patches]

I think the weight of opinion is very much loaded toward the clipless pedal since the vast majority of successful professional racers and amateur racers achieve success with coaches advocating clipless. Maybe in time that will change but none of his "scientific reasoning" is followed by other coaches.

 

No saying his wrong because clearly success with one rider at one point in time had an influence but it's clear that rider had moved on.

 

The idea of learning to pedal with flats is a good one but I don't have hope that it's as applicable to an adult as it is to a child since in adults the level of adaptation is much deduced.

 

The idea of pushing down on the pedals is old and accepted but there are Aldo studies that show the pedaling in circles to be a more efficient method.

 

My view is it's like driving with a safety belt; some people hate belts and others love them. I tend toward the connected feeling and the control clipins provide me. I'd much rather have m feet eps me rescue a tank slapper than get pitched off

 

I agree that the majority of racers (from road to DH) use clipless.

 

But take DH for example (and I do because most will consider this the most technical form of racing), I can bet that majority of the top riders in the DH field apply skills they learnt on flat pedals. They have mastered these, so turn to cleats to add that final edge.

 

And secondly... remember that riding and racing are 2 diifferent things (something hard for us South Africans to differentiate between. We tend to think that unless you're racing or training for a race, you're wasting your time).

 

Yes the racing field may see a cleated majority. (Sam Hill still being the first and only WC Elite to win a Championship on flats)... but take the timed element out of it. Look towards events with even gnarlier terrain (Rampage being one of the most well known), and now cleated riders are in the minority. These riders are all highly skilled professionals, on a course where losing control could mean death... yet they still choose flats.

 

Anyway... I'm not here to convert. Just trying to open up the discussion to more than just "racing is everything".