davem Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 New Ironman Rules Ironman announced a new global set of rules for their races last week. This means that they no longer have individual race specific rules and do not use ITU rules. All a good thing. Some interesting points I picked up which you guys might find interesting for IMSA:1. Swim temperatures have been adjusted in line with 2015 ITU Rules. Wetsuits compulsory for temps below 16 deg. Wetsuits are not allowed for temps over 24.5 deg. (21.9 deg for the Pros). This increases the likelihood of wetsuits being compulsory for those whose don't have one. 2. For temperatures below 18.3 deg, you may wear neoprene booties. “((e) Neoprene or any other booties are prohibited unless the water temperature is 18.3 degrees C/65.0 degrees F, or colder)” 3. Drafting:a. Draft length is 10m (12m for Pros) from front wheel, but no mention is made of the width the draft zone. ITU sets this at 1.5m either side of the bike.. 20 seconds is allowed for passing. (25s Pros)b. Specific clause: “A professional athlete must immediately move to the side upon entering the draft zone of another athlete when passing (i.e., no slipstreaming) and must continuously progress through the draft zone”.No mention of moving to the side is made under the equivalent clause for age group athletes. This means that an age grouper may use the draft to pass, ie slingshot past. Interesting. Change or omission? As these rules are meant to replace historical local race rules, these issues are worth clarifying with the Race Director.
IceCreamMan Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Not happy with the temperature rule change....I prefer swimming without a wetsuit irrespective of the temperature... 16 is still warm compared to some of the swims I have done. I have rented a wetsuit for PE just in case it became a wetsuit compulsory event , but hate the damn thing and hope not to have to use it. Am prepared to sign an indemnity to not have to wear one. the drafting rules really make no difference to me, I am so far at the back no one is close to me anyway
banna Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 the drafting rules really make no difference to me, I am so far at the back no one is close to me anyway I find these drafting rules being applied very strictly to the age groupers, quite harsh some times. Last time my GF got a drafting penalty. She was going uphill and the some of the leading pro's came past. She sat up on her bike to check them out (don't often get the chance to see these guys/girls up close) and the age grouper in front of her also went slower at the same time. So my GF while looking left to check out the pro's, unfortunately came too close to the guy in front her and immediately got a penalty. I know the rules are the rules, but surely the referees has got to be a bit more lenient? I mean for us back markers, we are seriously not thinking about drafting. We just want to survive the day and enjoy the event! Anyway, my rant for the day.
davem Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 I find these drafting rules being applied very strictly to the age groupers, quite harsh some times. Last time my GF got a drafting penalty. She was going uphill and the some of the leading pro's came past. She sat up on her bike to check them out (don't often get the chance to see these guys/girls up close) and the age grouper in front of her also went slower at the same time. So my GF while looking left to check out the pro's, unfortunately came too close to the guy in front her and immediately got a penalty. I know the rules are the rules, but surely the referees has got to be a bit more lenient? I mean for us back markers, we are seriously not thinking about drafting. We just want to survive the day and enjoy the event! Anyway, my rant for the day. That sounds like poor refereeing rather than being harsh on an age-grouper. Drafting is something that happens over a period of time. From the time a referee first sees you in the draft zone, he has to observe for at least 20s to check that you are not in a passing manoeuvre. Also if you are sitting up and drifting along you could be in the process of exiting the draft zone. Generally referees will give backmarkers a warning (they are not required to). Age-groupers should be held to the same standard including backmarkers but the decisions must be fair in the context of the road, available space and the intent. Many age-groupers deliberately draft thinking they can get away with it. Many times I have chirped someone "It's not a PB if you draft". And if you draft me, expect a squirt of 32Gi coming over my shoulder at you.
fanievb Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 That sounds like poor refereeing rather than being harsh on an age-grouper. Drafting is something that happens over a period of time. From the time a referee first sees you in the draft zone, he has to observe for at least 20s to check that you are not in a passing manoeuvre. Also if you are sitting up and drifting along you could be in the process of exiting the draft zone. Generally referees will give backmarkers a warning (they are not required to). Age-groupers should be held to the same standard including backmarkers but the decisions must be fair in the context of the road, available space and the intent. Many age-groupers deliberately draft thinking they can get away with it. Many times I have chirped someone "It's not a PB if you draft". And if you draft me, expect a squirt of 32Gi coming over my shoulder at you.Save the juice #snotrocket
Wheelsuck Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 That sounds like poor refereeing rather than being harsh on an age-grouper. Drafting is something that happens over a period of time. From the time a referee first sees you in the draft zone, he has to observe for at least 20s to check that you are not in a passing manoeuvre. Also if you are sitting up and drifting along you could be in the process of exiting the draft zone. Generally referees will give backmarkers a warning (they are not required to). Age-groupers should be held to the same standard including backmarkers but the decisions must be fair in the context of the road, available space and the intent. Many age-groupers deliberately draft thinking they can get away with it. Many times I have chirped someone "It's not a PB if you draft". And if you draft me, expect a squirt of 32Gi coming over my shoulder at you.Some of the refs are a bit overzealous, In 2012 I saw them DQ a guy 1km from the finish when his mate jogged next to him for a couple of meters shouting encouragement.-Outside assistance -Red Card. Now I agree rules are rules but some of these refs seem to take delight in screwing up your race for you, I am less scared of the distance then seeing one of those candystripers sometimes cause you never know what bug they have up their ass.
banna Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Some of the refs are a bit overzealous, In 2012 I saw them DQ a guy 1km from the finish when his mate jogged next to him for a couple of meters shouting encouragement.-Outside assistance -Red Card. Now I agree rules are rules but some of these refs seem to take delight in screwing up your race for you, I am less scared of the distance then seeing one of those candystripers sometimes cause you never know what bug they have up their ass.Absolutely. And you're so sh*t scared of making an error on the bike leg that it almost takes a bit of the positive vibe/spirit of the day away.
SwissVan Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Some of the refs are a bit overzealous, In 2012 I saw them DQ a guy 1km from the finish when his mate jogged next to him for a couple of meters shouting encouragement.-Outside assistance -Red Card. Now I agree rules are rules but some of these refs seem to take delight in screwing up your race for you, I am less scared of the distance then seeing one of those candystripers sometimes cause you never know what bug they have up their ass. Absolutely. And you're so sh*t scared of making an error on the bike leg that it almost takes a bit of the positive vibe/spirit of the day away. Tell me about it... I got a drafting penalty at IM Switz last year at about km 27 ( there were long lines and bunches of riders as up until then it was flat and fast) and it was extremely difficult to maintain a 10m gap....anyway while I was standing at the penalty box at about km 31 on a steepish uphill I saw the same race ref DQ a rider for riding abreast going uphill.... I was paranoid for the rest of the ride and ended up riding the first lap faster than I planned to ensure I kept passing others instead of settling into a pace...Luckily by the time of the 2nd lap it was more split up, I still got passed by a huge bunch and there was a race ref traveling in the opposite direction who despite my waving and pointing just ignored them..... hehe all part of the trails and tribulations of the big day LOL
Grantc Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 New Ironman Rules Ironman announced a new global set of rules for their races last week. This means that they no longer have individual race specific rules and do not use ITU rules. All a good thing. Some interesting points I picked up which you guys might find interesting for IMSA:1. Swim temperatures have been adjusted in line with 2015 ITU Rules. Wetsuits compulsory for temps below 16 deg. Wetsuits are not allowed for temps over 24.5 deg. (21.9 deg for the Pros). This increases the likelihood of wetsuits being compulsory for those whose don't have one. 2. For temperatures below 18.3 deg, you may wear neoprene booties. “((e) Neoprene or any other booties are prohibited unless the water temperature is 18.3 degrees C/65.0 degrees F, or colder)” 3. Drafting:a. Draft length is 10m (12m for Pros) from front wheel, but no mention is made of the width the draft zone. ITU sets this at 1.5m either side of the bike.. 20 seconds is allowed for passing. (25s Pros)b. Specific clause: “A professional athlete must immediately move to the side upon entering the draft zone of another athlete when passing (i.e., no slipstreaming) and must continuously progress through the draft zone”.No mention of moving to the side is made under the equivalent clause for age group athletes. This means that an age grouper may use the draft to pass, ie slingshot past. Interesting. Change or omission? As these rules are meant to replace historical local race rules, these issues are worth clarifying with the Race Director. DaveThe age groupers were allowed to use the draft to pass this year.
davem Posted April 7, 2015 Author Posted April 7, 2015 DaveThe age groupers were allowed to use the draft to pass this year. So it is true, not an error. Makes it easier to pass, less to enforce but also more difficult to enforce real drafting. For me it is a win, as a slow swimmer but a faster cyclist, I can literally zip in and out of the line using the draft to keep up a far greater speed.
IceCreamMan Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 So it is true, not an error. Makes it easier to pass, less to enforce but also more difficult to enforce real drafting. For me it is a win, as a slow swimmer but a faster cyclist, I can literally zip in and out of the line using the draft to keep up a far greater speed. there was so much drafting going on anyway, not sure this rule was enforced at all for us age groupers...
Dean Lance Tyler Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 there was so much drafting going on anyway, not sure this rule was enforced at all for us age groupers...Ya true. Was drafting everywhere. One of my mates did get a penalty for drafting
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