Giant anthem

[Scott2luvit]

Interesting where this thread is heading, I am very interested in sag and damper settings though and it seems like its a very gray area. I set my damper and air volume dependig on the track I will be riding ie if I know it will be hard fast with berms I pump my shock harder as I dont like it when the shock or fork gives way to much when hitting a berm, when I am doing a ride where there are lots of roots i tend to have it more plush and on the slow side. Its all about playing with the settings, also like the Gentleman said today from Giant, if you havent gone over the handle bars of an Anthem

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

  On 6/27/2015 at 3:34 PM, JXV said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. All my training in physics and as an engineer combined with 20 years of mtb and the documentation from the OP's shock manufacturer all agree and make sense to me.

 

Cannot reconcile your assertion that rebound settings, which essentially consist of an adjustable "valve" that varies resistance to oil flow, are independent of airspring forces that drive this oil flow when the fork/shock is unloaded after a hit.

 

On the compression stroke its different because here the driving force for oil flow is more complex and a lot of modern shocks have both high and low speed compression circuits

 

Also confused that as a heavier rider, you are happy with much faster rebound settings. What shock /forks are you using?

 

Maybe your (or my) shock/fork is faulty - causing our preferred settings to diverge - or we just like a different ride feel

I think the thing that you're forgetting is that the riders weight remains constant during the ride, and he doesn't automatically unweight the front after compression (in which case a fork with more pressure WILL rebound faster with all other factors remaining constant, due to the lack of weight on the fork or shock

 

their weight doesn't magically change mid ride. So let's just say that the pressures equal the riders weight in kg. The 100kg rider has 100psi to achieve the 25% sag level. A 50kg rider has 50psi to achieve the same sag. If all the circuits are left wide open, the fork or shock will compress and rebound at the same speed when confronting an obstacle because the air is being compressed and then lifting the fork back up again. Again - remembering that gravity is acting on the rider and thus the air pressure in the fork or shock is being counteracted by his or her weight.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

  On 6/27/2015 at 3:43 PM, Scott2luvit said:

Interesting where this thread is heading, I am very interested in sag and damper settings though and it seems like its a very gray area. I set my damper and air volume dependig on the track I will be riding ie if I know it will be hard fast with berms I pump my shock harder as I dont like it when the shock or fork gives way to much when hitting a berm, when I am doing a ride where there are lots of roots i tend to have it more plush and on the slow side. Its all about playing with the settings, also like the Gentleman said today from Giant, if you havent gone over the handle bars of an Anthem

That giving way in berms would primarily be as a result of your low speed compression circuit not being as adjustable as you need it to be. You either have climb trail or descend. In trail you have 3 further settings, but in 2012 - 2014 Fox were well known for having really duff low speed compression circuits.

 

You overcame that by pumping the fork up to have more pressure, which then sacrificed your low speed compression (roots, rocks etc) and meant that you needed to provide more force for the fork to compress into it's travel.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Oh... as for the fork, it was a marzocchi 66 rc3, with a Fox dhx5 air. Previously a lyrik rc2l solo air, then before that a revelation Team dual air (essentially an Rlt)

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Hang on... I think I know where you're coming from.

 

Are you thinking on a static rider weight? Ie a 60kg rider with (using the fork described above) 60psi and then again upping it to 100psi (the normal pressure for someone of 100kg)?

 

In that case then yes - the compression damping would need to be set very low (max oil flow) and the rebound very slow as the pressure is far above that which he should be riding with. But as soon as you increase rider mass with pressure, the suspension action becomes normalised and you can revert to normal compression and rebound settings...

[Trance Dance]

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/To-The-Point-Rebound-Damping-2013.html

 

Interesting reading

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

So we're both right but for different reasons

[JXV]

  On 6/27/2015 at 3:44 PM, Renaissance Man said:

I think the thing that you're forgetting is that the riders weight remains constant during the ride, and he doesn't automatically unweight the front after compression (in which case a fork with more pressure WILL rebound faster with all other factors remaining constant, due to the lack of weight on

 

their weight doesn't magically change mid ride. So let's just say that the pressures equal the riders weight in kg. The 100kg rider has 100psi to achieve the 25% sag level. A 50kg rider has 50psi to achieve the same sag. If all the circuits are left wide open, the fork or shock will compress and rebound at the same speed when confronting an obstacle because the air is being compressed and then lifting the fork back up again. Again - remembering that gravity is acting on the rider and thus the air pressure in the fork or shock is being counteracted by his or her weight.

Not forgetting that at all. I just think it is influenced by controls other than the rebound setting on OP's fork and shock. Here's why :

 

The fork and rear shock both get partially unweighted when they extend the wheel into the drop on the far side of a rock or bump - this is what the high speed rebound circuit is for and the driving force for this oil flow is high because it is airspring force mostly unopposed by rider weight. As I understand it this is what the red rebound dial of OP's Fox CTD forks and shocks is for because ;

 

In the Fox video on setting rebound they first set the sag then compress and release the fork/shock without the rider on board. The red dial is adjusted slower and slower until the bike's wheels stop jumping - or you can use the table in their settings pdf downloadable off their site(difficult to find). Both of these methods use unloaded rebound to derive the initial setting point.

 

For rebound on flat ground after a bump, pedal bob or e.g. landing a jump, yes I agree the rider's weight opposes the airspring and the much smaller difference between these two forces drives the oil flow in the low speed rebound circuit. On a CTD fork/shock this is selected along with corresponding compression settings using the CTD lever (and trail adjust dial in those products that have one).

 

So I still think my advice was correct for OP's requirement. It may not be appropriate to other models or makes though. Sorry if it came across as such.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

  On 6/27/2015 at 5:07 PM, JXV said:

Not forgetting that at all. I just think it is influenced by controls other than the rebound setting on OP's fork and shock. Here's why :

 

The fork and rear shock both get partially unweighted when they extend the wheel into the drop on the far side of a rock or bump - this is what the high speed rebound circuit is for and the driving force for this oil flow is high because it is airspring force mostly unopposed by rider weight. As I understand it this is what the red rebound dial of OP's Fox CTD forks and shocks is for because ;

 

In the Fox video on setting rebound they first set the sag then compress and release the fork/shock without the rider on board. The red dial is adjusted slower and slower until the bike's wheels stop jumping - or you can use the table in their settings pdf downloadable off their site(difficult to find). Both of these methods use unloaded rebound to derive the initial setting point.

 

For rebound on flat ground after a bump, pedal bob or e.g. landing a jump, yes I agree the rider's weight opposes the airspring and the much smaller difference between these two forces drives the oil flow in the low speed rebound circuit. On a CTD fork/shock this is selected along with corresponding compression settings using the CTD lever (and trail adjust dial in those products that have one).

 

So I still think my advice was correct for OP's requirement. It may not be appropriate to other models or makes though. Sorry if it came across as such.

Now that, I can get behind...

[eccc whippet]

I got smart and took it back to the bike shop...checked the suspension.

 

110 kg...shock pressure 210...sag 25 %

Rebound set to the middle ie of the 14 clicks moved it to 7...will fine tune as we go.

The other black lever on the shock I moved to 3 ...harder setting....moved it to 2 while out on the ride today...made it a lot softer...actually glad I took the bike with the Kashmir shock

 

Forks...120 pressure

Rebound adjustment under the right fork...while the bike was secured in the trainer...the guy bounced on the handlebars and reset until the wheel stopped jumping off the ground...same as the setup video on the fox website.

 

Gona do an easier route tomorrow the normal blue route at Giba... Today's route we went to Giba and climbed the green then went right up onto the blue route to the highway....then back down the mountain...*** *** ***....it was a hair raising ride...some serious drop offs...was lacking confidence because I am so use to the back brake on the left hand side...I battle to control the brake with my right hand because of the pins holding it together.

[DoubleJ]

20% for me on my Anthem.

 

[eccc whippet]

 

They didnt put this sign on the route for show [emoji15] maybe next time it will be a little easier...one of the guys riding with us today broke his collar bone the last time he did this section.

[eccc whippet]

I didn't want to fiddled with the brakes hoses(will leave that for the bike shop...after all the hassles I had with the revel leaking)

 

lucky the slx brake levers have an adjustment...gona adjust the lever position so that the left (front brake) is closer to the handle bars...hoping that might help prevent from squeezing it too hard and going over the handle bars.

 

Doing the other part of the blue route at Giba for the first time...amateur rider...new bike with a go pro camera [emoji6] no laughing please [emoji12]

[eccc whippet]

Didnt get to spend as much time on the bike as i was hoping this weekend

 

However i did get to do the blue route for the first time..it was a long climb to the top with switchbacks ( not my favorite parts)...I managed to get through the majority of them...however i did chicken out of a few and rather walked around the corner...practice practice practice.

 

I did try different settings on the shock but I need to become a more experienced rider to worry about fine tuning...I spent most of the time riding in trail mode...with the open mode adjust set on 3...then moved it to 2 half way through the ride...didnt really take note of any change...was more concerned about holding on while flying down the hill and generally focusing on the track.

 

The brakes were the biggest challenge on the ride...because the front brake is on the left and back brake on right i battle to ride the bike with confidence especially when flying down the single tracks and steep drop offs...I did set the front brake lever very loose to make sure i didnt lock it up in a panic situation...but i still kept making the mistake of using it too much...I am use to riding motor bikes with the front brake on the right and my Revel also had the front brake on the right...will be changing it over soon...One thing i am enjoying about the SLX brake lever is the adjustment on the lever.

 

I am really enjoying the weight of the bike...it is very light in comparison to what i am use to.

 

After riding a hard tail it is gona take a while for me to get use to the dual suspension...it certainly is a much more comfortable ride and I noticed a huge confidence boost in the rocky sections...I also found myself riding over the roots just because.

 

I must say even though the gear selection on the anthem is smoother the the Revel it isnt a big wow like i was expecting (maybe as the bike wears in...it might improve)...I had spent some time with the Revel making sure the bike was setup and functioning properly...always making sure the cables were well maintained and derailer cleaned and lubricated. 

[eccc whippet]

By the way...something i do need to adjust is the rebound...after reading parts of this thread again...it could explain my nose diving over the jumps...it could just be that i am a really *** rider...but will move it 1 or 2 clicks softer and see how it goes on the next ride.

[Monark]

I don't know you at all but maybe you are "sweating the small stuff" a little too much and just need to get out there and ride the bike a little bit more?  I ride about 800km a month and I have no idea what my sag is or what my shock pressures are... I set them once at the bike shop and then just rode her as much as I can. Anthems are trusty steads, love her and clean her and she will look after you for years. Stop worrying about psi, mm and shift feel and start riding more and just learning to love her more...