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Exclusive Ride Report: FOX Live Valve Active Suspension System


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Posted

How would terrain radar know I'm taking the hoender run and not the widow maker? Or a blind drop off. It would have to be millisecond response time.

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Posted

How would terrain radar know I'm taking the hoender run and not the widow maker? Or a blind drop off. It would have to be millisecond response time.

which is what this tech has. 

 

I get both IQ's & Iwan's stance on this - it's all going to hinge on the real world application, and whether the accelerometer picks up the minute variations in time for it to be a seamless transition between closed and open. Which, reportedly, it does. 

 

The terrain radar could look at the space directly in front of the contact patch, and adjust the settings based on the readings it receives from the terrain - adjusting the settings based on the difference in height between certain points in the trail, for example. That would be more pro-active than reactive, which is what Iwan has a problem with. Yes, the reactivity of the system atm is lightning fast, but is it lightning fast enough to avoid spikes in the system - after all, a millisecond delay is still a delay, whereas a normal pre-set suspension design in OPEN setting would just work without the initial millisecond delay. 

 

Another thing I've thought of - the radar could monitor the variation in the tyre's deflection. Given that the tyre will react to changes in terrain before the suspension is activated, that would allow a sort of "early warning system" for the shock's ECU, allowing it to open just as the tyre hits an object that causes a deflection over a certain velocity... 

 

The accelerometer would still allow for variations in gravity (to detect a start of a climb or a drop-off / jump etc) 

 

I'll continue to read about it, and rely on others more qualified than I to determine the benefits and drawbacks of the system. However, I remain excited. 

Posted

Are iwan's assertions unquestionable? Is his assessment so perfect that no one can discuss what's been written?

 

Not looking for a rise, just trying to understand the rules. Cos it seems some people cannot be questioned or challenged.

I notice you have a very high post count. That however does not make you the gate keeper of suitable or appropriate discussion .

If you care to read iq 's post he is not attacking your pal.

 

So take a chill pill dude

Posted

How would terrain radar know I'm taking the hoender run and not the widow maker? Or a blind drop off. It would have to be millisecond response time.

That is the point - read the review of the fork - it is millisecond response times.

 

And it wont get slower.

 

So the fork will cover your arse - radar will be nice.

Posted

Are iwan's assertions unquestionable? Is his assessment so perfect that no one can discuss what's been written?

 

Not looking for a rise, just trying to understand the rules. Cos it seems some people cannot be questioned or challenged.

I notice you have a very high post count. That however does not make you the gate keeper of suitable or appropriate discussion .

If you care to read iq 's post he is not attacking your pal.

 

So take a chill pill dude

Read again. And I quote, seeing as you seem to need it repeated 

 

"I never said it did"

 

IE: IQ's opinion is just as valid as Iwan's. However, as soon as you bring an element of name calling into it, and question the person rather than the opinion, then it becomes an ad hominem attack. 

 

Regarding the popcorn - it looked as if it was going to be an interesting discussion - one from "old world" standpoints, the other from "new world"

 

IQ was also questioning Iwan's credentials, to a point. Seeing as I know Iwan quite well (at least I think so, he's a dodgy character that one :) )I was giving a bit of credence to Iwan's assertions. 

 

It seems, therefore, that you need to be taking the pill, buddy

Posted

That is the point - read the review of the fork - it is millisecond response times.

 

And it wont get slower.

 

So the fork will cover your arse - radar will be nice.

the application of radar tech would indeed be nice. 

 

in answer to your earlier post on the ML & the reactive suspension tech, there's also the flip-side of the coin - Baja trucks & other off-road racing vehicles, as well as track racing vehicles, still largely use mechanical damping systems rather than the reactive tech we're seeing in consumer level wagons, specifically because it reacts just that little bit faster, and it doesn't need to switch between full open and closed all the time. 

 

But yes - interesting tech. I'd LOVE to try it, but I suspect it'll be orders of magnitude above my budget... 

Posted

Read again. And I quote, seeing as you seem to need it repeated 

 

"I never said it did"

 

IE: IQ's opinion is just as valid as Iwan's. However, as soon as you bring an element of name calling into it, and question the person rather than the opinion, then it becomes an ad hominem attack. 

 

Regarding the popcorn - it looked as if it was going to be an interesting discussion - one from "old world" standpoints, the other from "new world"

 

IQ was also questioning Iwan's credentials, to a point. Seeing as I know Iwan quite well (at least I think so, he's a dodgy character that one :) )I was giving a bit of credence to Iwan's assertions. 

 

It seems, therefore, that you need to be taking the pill, buddy

Aha a  moer mekaar Friday - we haven't had one of these in a long time. Keyboard heroes arise.

 

I was gently and maybe vaguely asserting that he likes analogue Tech but if you read I was subtly insinuating (deleted the actual accusation after typing it in) that he may be a bit behind the times in his assessment and was wanting to push the ideas boat out  a bit further to allow the ideas to form a bit of a vision of what is possible and challenge the assertion.

 

Roll on the debate - we will leave you two to klap each other with your handbags

Posted

Aha a  moer mekaar Friday - we haven't had one of these in a long time. Keyboard heroes arise.

 

I was gently and maybe vaguely asserting that he likes analogue Tech but if you read I was subtly insinuating (deleted the actual accusation after typing it in) that he may be a bit behind the times in his assessment and was wanting to push the ideas boat out  a bit further to allow the ideas to form a bit of a vision of what is possible and challenge the assertion.

 

Roll on the debate - we will leave you two to klap each other with your handbags

haha... Yeah, I know you were. And then in came that bird of dismay... It was morphing into an interesting discussion up till that point. 

Posted

On this, though - they're also saying that you can adjust the sensitivity of the sensors, thereby determining at what point it switches over... It also syncs the fork and shock so that if the fork senses an impact and opens, so does the shock - essentially resulting in a re-actively proactive suspension system... Same sort of thing as the Lapierre E:i, but orders of magnitude faster and activating on the fork as well as the shock. 

 

I have a feeling that this setting up of the threshold will determine how the system feels and how quickly it reacts, or, rather, the size of the hit that is needed in order to activate the switch. (as the article says)

 

Personally, though, I still keep it fully open all the time. 

Posted

Radar tech has been used in motorsports as early as 1986. It's just gone through various stages of legality due to fia intervention and through technical limitations.

Reactive systems are just cheaper and require less electrical load than an active radar system.

I mentioned garmin recently purchased tech specifically became it is a low current load system which makes it easier to integrate into a bicycle since it requires less load from the battery.

 

Talking to some of the oems they are all looking at this low current radar tech for not only collision avoidance but also ride adaptation.

Low current draw radar is more attractive because it does not carry a fuel economy penalty and therefore no emissions penalty.

 

So the reasons why it's not on cars, race cars ,off road competition vehicles is not a technology maturity problem but a regulation challenge be that fia or emissions

Posted

The benefit to dh racing will be apparent when the course has lots of pedalling sections where power to the pedals could be the difference between winning or losing.

 

For Joe soap the bragging rights are of much higher value

Posted

The extract from the article below is what really makes me exceptionally interested, and what nullifies my concerns RE feeling a spike in the system.

 

"The solenoid opens and closes a bypass circuit which can toggle the shock between either option in five milliseconds (.005 seconds). For comparison, a human eye-blink requires 300 milliseconds."

 

Further to this the fork and shock are "talking" to each other. So with the fork sensing the spike, it is translating the information to the shock already. Let's assume the fork is running less compression than the shock, the trail buzz or obsticle will be less of a spike up front and when the rear wheel encounters the force, the compression will be less allowing for a more seamless system.

 

The Brain tech is really very archaic compared to this offering from Fox.

 

I also like that the activation is via a mag "valve" "magafta" .... no motors required, less lag and more seamless with a magafta on the fork and shock which are the same and easy to replace .... kind of plug and play.

 

IQ made some very valid and interesting/exciting points in his post.

 

I put it to you that Iwan is a Luddite, he has even gone down to a steel hardtail bike :P

Posted

??!

Does that invalidate everyone else's opinion ?

??!

No but it does provide context to the validity of the opinion.

Wind your neck in a bit please.

Posted

Throw some of that R&D money into building a rear hub which could actually charge the battery. Same goes for the Di2 systems. All this tech comes down to the same integral flaw.

At some point you need to remember to plug in the damn thing.

I mean come on. Its been like 100 years since this rubbish was invented

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/6d/6e/1332634303_IMG_1624.jpg?itok=a5Fw-GRb

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