Epicbikeshop Cape Town . .VAT refund missing!

[raptor-22]

LOL. The taxation laws of 2 countries have absolutely no bearing on each other.

 

What happens if I pay VAT on something that is tax exempt in my own country? Am I still 'not entitled' to claim a tax refund? The issue here is simple misrepresentation by a business. SARS will have a field day.

 

 

 

Actually it does have bearing on the matter.

Taxation laws are not designed to penalise you twice. You pay the tax that your country of origin requires you to pay. If Amerigo declared his bike he would have been charged the difference between SA VAT and Italian VAT.

 

Often I buy things in Singapore and don't bother to claim the 9% VAT back at the airport. When i get back to SA I go through "Something to declare" and they charge me the difference, and they recover the remainder from Singapore tax authority.

 

When I take my bike out of the country I have to declare it at departure as part of my luggage and that  have owned it and not purchased within the last ( ithink its 6months or they want an invoice showing the items and value with serial number,make and model). Its marked tax exempt as its luggage. If I ditch it at my country of destination and when I return its not the same item they have on record its considered an import and I would be liabel for duty and VAT unless I can prove I paid VAT in Excess of SA VAT. SARS then recovers the 145 VAT from the other country taxation authority.

 

there is a very coordinated global effort to ensure goods movement is tightly controlled and that everyone benefits from the duties.

[Meezo]

#EpicBikeShop trying to get hold of Admin...

 

almost like that mtb coach thingy!

[raptor-22]

Why are you trying so hard to discredit the OP? I'm trying hard to avoid joining the debate, but your VAT knowledge is not as good as some of the other people in this debate (you clearly have a fair amount of practical experience from which you have drawn your own conclusions/assumptions, but limited or no theoretical knowledge of the Act - this is fairly standard for importers so no offense intended at all). The chances are pretty good we would have found you (and most other people in this debate) in the "Nothing to Declare" line at the airport with your holiday shopping in your bags at some point. 

 

I have also seen many suggestions on the hub on how to get around VAT and Duties on your overseas bike puchases (not from ICycling, but as a general comment) so it is amazing to see all these people so worried about following the rules on re-entry into his home country. I'm not saying it's correct if it wasn't declared (which it clearly isn't), but that is his and his home country's concern and not the hub.

 

 

You can exit via Nothing to declare if you have spent less than R5000-00 on goods during your trip. This value includes gifts

[Bike Mob]

Just writing this to put few facts straight seeing that some people here are doing whatever is possible to turn this topic into someone else.

 

- Epicshopbike assured me I'd get back the VAT at the airpot 

 

- Epicshopbike provided an invoice with a VAT number not recognized from the system so I wasn't able to claim the VAT

 

- 6 months later they didn't provide a new invoice with a real VAT number on it

 

- When I started this topic after 30 minutes I got an email from them telling me that it wasn't good for US to be on the forum and threatened me saying that if I won't delete he won't pay back the VAT

 

- A certain @therock starts commenting bringing the topic somewhere else 

 

- a certain @zilla using @therock comment makes a point trying again to bing the topic into something else and talking as he is not involved in this matter 

 

- a user recognizes that @zilla is epicshopbike

 

- again @zilla now talking as thebikeshop comments talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic,lying in many points and trying to look good and clean

 

- the invoice he provided and emails we exchanged that I posted here tells it all

 

I don't know what else to say,it should be clear to all of you by now.involved with epicbikeshop or not;  He should't have done what he did and instead he had to be clear about the VAT and apologize for the "mistake" he has done

 

Will contact SARS and will see how things move forward 

 

Thank you everyone 

 

To answer your questions:

 

No I did not promise you a VAT refund, nor assure you this would be possible. I said you could try a claim. NOR did you ever buy the bike or ask about the cost ex VAT and buy in on this premise. We agreed a deal and spec and after you bought it you mentioned you want to claim the VAT.

 

My ORIGINAL invoice to DID NOT say TAX Invoice nor does it specifically itemise the VAT portion. While at the airport Americo called me numerous times and demanded another invoice with all of the details he needed on it. It was an extremely busy Friday if I recall...

 

I had to reproduce an invoice, which I hurriedly typed and then add in those details for him - Now at this point I am both trying to help Americo and also really avoid breaking the law - So im pretty torn here as I'm actually a nice guy and would rather help my cuctomer so I added the VAT number of my fathers business (But in the end made a mistake on the last digit ) - I think that was actually a good thing as in the end the law was not broken and Americo ended up with a piece of paper that is not actually my legal invoice. I'll admit this was not ideal and yes it was wrong and yes im going to hell but I'm happy it didnt work out and was rejected.

 

You know how the saying goes, when you try help someone out of the *** then you help yourself into it.

 

Since Americo has dodged all questions about paying EU VAT we can assume he has not paid his countries VAT and so avoided paying vat there. He has paid vat Legally in SA and thats fair.

 

I do not hold Americo's VAT and cannot pay back the money. We made a deal that was never based on a vat return, and it was concluded mutally.

 

From SARS website:

 

The sole proprietorship is not a legal entity. The business has no existence separate from the owner who is called the proprietor. The owner must include the income from such business in his or her own income tax return and is responsible for the payment of taxes thereon. A sole proprietorship can operate under the name of its owner or it can do business under a fictitious name. The fictitious name is simply a trade name--it does not create a legal entity separate from the sole proprietor owner.

 

I submit my tax returns, pay my tax and the world goes round and round...

[Edge_Design]

You can exit via Nothing to declare if you have spent less than R5000-00 on goods during your trip. This value includes gifts

 

I am aware there are rules around what needs to be declared - I'm not sure everyone complies with them though. Buy the Ipod/Ipad/camera etc and throw away the box so you can claim it was used and all of those games people play.

[Bike Mob]

Also his decision for buying the bike in Cape Town was because he was here for an  extended time and wanted to ride around cape town for a fe weeks... not really a price point.

[GameSetMatch]

You still have not answered the question did you pay the Vat in the region you live? Till you have answered that (with proof) your argument is leaving out some very important facts.

From you opening statement:

"When I went to the VAT Refund office the person working there checked the bicycle and when she took a look at the invoice she told me that the VAT number of the store was missing from the letter."

You talk about a Invoice there with no Vat number and it been a letter. You expect Epic bike shop to know the Vat rules and regulation which as they appear not to be Vat registers are not part of the Vat system? Is it not safe to assume that they may know as much as you do or less in this regard?

 

For educational purposes for hubbers - A person / company who know the Vat system would know that the Invoice needs to say TAX INVOICE with shop name and address along with Vat number and date. For amounts over Rxxxx.xx the other person /companies name should also appear with address and preferable with that companies Vat number.  Can even be hand written - an example from a Invoice book I purchased at either pick ’n Pay or CNA!

 

Mr Wheeler(presume its you)...What has Europe got to do with Epic bike shops VAT here in the land of SA? You hacking away avoiding the actual topic in question. You say you have a business, do you practise what you preach? Gees man,jump off the train of smoke and mirrors and jump on the train of facts

[KingTJ]

I had to reproduce an invoice, which I hurriedly typed and then add in those details for him - Now at this point I am both trying to help Americo and also really avoid breaking the law - So im pretty torn here as I'm actually a nice guy and would rather help my cuctomer so I added the VAT number of my fathers business (But in the end made a mistake on the last digit ) - I think that was actually a good thing as in the end the law was not broken and Americo ended up with a piece of paper that is not actually my legal invoice. I'll admit this was not ideal and yes it was wrong and yes im going to hell but I'm happy it didnt work out and was rejected.

 

Zilla, thanks for clearing that up....I can understand your error., a foolish one, but not a mischievous one.

 

NB, you can register for VAT as a Sole Proprieter, any accountant/tax practitioner can assist  you with it..I would recommend you do it, as it will save you money in the long run , 

[Bike Mob]

I also do not bait market like Americo claims to tourists.

 

I do have a second business whose VAT registration is currently pending, as stated above. Its not been pending for 6 months, first I have to set up a company, change company name etc etc, register for VAT, Import/Export licenses etc...it takes a while trust me.

 

I fully intended to re-invoice Americo under new company name with correct VAT number, however his impatience has created this mess. Im not so sure i would like to follow that through anymore.

[Edge_Design]

speculation getting out of control here and just plain silly.

 

its already been explained that VAT has to bee charged and is built into the price. That is by law.

 

Which law? 

[Bike Mob]

I had to reproduce an invoice, which I hurriedly typed and then add in those details for him - Now at this point I am both trying to help Americo and also really avoid breaking the law - So im pretty torn here as I'm actually a nice guy and would rather help my cuctomer so I added the VAT number of my fathers business (But in the end made a mistake on the last digit ) - I think that was actually a good thing as in the end the law was not broken and Americo ended up with a piece of paper that is not actually my legal invoice. I'll admit this was not ideal and yes it was wrong and yes im going to hell but I'm happy it didnt work out and was rejected.

 

Zilla, thanks for clearing that up....I can understand your error., a foolish one, but not a mischievous one.

 

NB, you can register for VAT as a Sole Proprieter, any accountant can assist you with it..I would recommend you do it, as it will save you money in the long run , 

 

 

The OP makes it look like entrapment - sold a bike at the price point of Ex Vat to make it look enticing - Not at all - in all our discussions about the bike it was sold as if he was a natural SA person. Only at the very end did he mention he wanted to claim the vat back and I said he should be able to but wasnt clear. It wasnt a deal breaker for him. Now he's turned that around.

[GameSetMatch]

I also do not bait market like Americo claims to tourists.

 

I do have a second business whose VAT registration is currently pending, as stated above. Its not been pending for 6 months, first I have to set up a company, change company name etc etc, register for VAT, Import/Export licenses etc...it takes a while trust me.

 

I fully intended to re-invoice Americo under new company name with correct VAT number, however his impatience has created this mess. Im not so sure i would like to follow that through anymore.

Zille, we all make mistakes we just human. I suggest you send Americo the invoice with correct VAT number and get it behind you. Theres no winners or loosers here its just the right thing to do.

[Americo]

To answer your questions:

 

No I did not promise you a VAT refund, nor assure you this would be possible. I said you could try a claim. NOR did you ever buy the bike or ask about the cost ex VAT and buy in on this premise. We agreed a deal and spec and after you bought it you mentioned you want to claim the VAT.

 

My ORIGINAL invoice to DID NOT say TAX Invoice nor does it specifically itemise the VAT portion. While at the airport Americo called me numerous times and demanded another invoice with all of the details he needed on it. It was an extremely busy Friday if I recall...

 

I had to reproduce an invoice, which I hurriedly typed and then add in those details for him - Now at this point I am both trying to help Americo and also really avoid breaking the law - So im pretty torn here as I'm actually a nice guy and would rather help my cuctomer so I added the VAT number of my fathers business (But in the end made a mistake on the last digit ) - I think that was actually a good thing as in the end the law was not broken and Americo ended up with a piece of paper that is not actually my legal invoice. I'll admit this was not ideal and yes it was wrong and yes im going to hell but I'm happy it didnt work out and was rejected.

 

You know how the saying goes, when you try help someone out of the *** then you help yourself into it.

 

Since Americo has dodged all questions about paying EU VAT we can assume he has not paid his countries VAT and so avoided paying vat there. He has paid vat Legally in SA and thats fair.

 

I do not hold Americo's VAT and cannot pay back the money. We made a deal that was never based on a vat return, and it was concluded mutally.

 

From SARS website:

 

The sole proprietorship is not a legal entity. The business has no existence separate from the owner who is called the proprietor. The owner must include the income from such business in his or her own income tax return and is responsible for the payment of taxes thereon. A sole proprietorship can operate under the name of its owner or it can do business under a fictitious name. The fictitious name is simply a trade name--it does not create a legal entity separate from the sole proprietor owner.

 

I submit my tax returns, pay my tax and the world goes round and round...

 

To answer your questions:

 

No I did not promise you a VAT refund, nor assure you this would be possible. I said you could try a claim. NOR did you ever buy the bike or ask about the cost ex VAT and buy in on this premise. We agreed a deal and spec and after you bought it you mentioned you want to claim the VAT.

 

My ORIGINAL invoice to DID NOT say TAX Invoice nor does it specifically itemise the VAT portion. While at the airport Americo called me numerous times and demanded another invoice with all of the details he needed on it. It was an extremely busy Friday if I recall...

 

I had to reproduce an invoice, which I hurriedly typed and then add in those details for him - Now at this point I am both trying to help Americo and also really avoid breaking the law - So im pretty torn here as I'm actually a nice guy and would rather help my cuctomer so I added the VAT number of my fathers business (But in the end made a mistake on the last digit ) - I think that was actually a good thing as in the end the law was not broken and Americo ended up with a piece of paper that is not actually my legal invoice. I'll admit this was not ideal and yes it was wrong and yes im going to hell but I'm happy it didnt work out and was rejected.

 

You know how the saying goes, when you try help someone out of the *** then you help yourself into it.

 

Since Americo has dodged all questions about paying EU VAT we can assume he has not paid his countries VAT and so avoided paying vat there. He has paid vat Legally in SA and thats fair.

 

I do not hold Americo's VAT and cannot pay back the money. We made a deal that was never based on a vat return, and it was concluded mutally.

 

From SARS website:

 

The sole proprietorship is not a legal entity. The business has no existence separate from the owner who is called the proprietor. The owner must include the income from such business in his or her own income tax return and is responsible for the payment of taxes thereon. A sole proprietorship can operate under the name of its owner or it can do business under a fictitious name. The fictitious name is simply a trade name--it does not create a legal entity separate from the sole proprietor owner.

 

I submit my tax returns, pay my tax and the world goes round and round...

 

 

I also do not bait market like Americo claims to tourists.

 

I do have a second business whose VAT registration is currently pending, as stated above. Its not been pending for 6 months, first I have to set up a company, change company name etc etc, register for VAT, Import/Export licenses etc...it takes a while trust me.

 

I fully intended to re-invoice Americo under new company name with correct VAT number, however his impatience has created this mess. Im not so sure i would like to follow that through anymore.

 

 

The OP makes it look like entrapment - sold a bike at the price point of Ex Vat to make it look enticing - Not at all - in all our discussions about the bike it was sold as if he was a natural SA person. Only at the very end did he mention he wanted to claim the vat back and I said he should be able to but wasnt clear. It wasnt a deal breaker for him. Now he's turned that around.

I'm sorry Zilla but you should be really reading better the emails we exchanged if you don't remember how things went. or are you lying again in purpose?

 

"No I did not promise you a VAT refund, nor assure you this would be possible. I said you could try a claim. NOR did you ever buy the bike or ask about the cost ex VAT and buy in on this premise. We agreed a deal and spec and after you bought it you mentioned you want to claim the VAT."

 

"The OP makes it look like entrapment - sold a bike at the price point of Ex Vat to make it look enticing - Not at all - in all our discussions about the bike it was sold as if he was a natural SA person. Only at the very end did he mention he wanted to claim the vat back and I said he should be able to but wasnt clear. It wasnt a deal breaker for him. Now he's turned that around."

 

Email dated February 11 2015 - 6 days before the bike was bought

http://i62.tinypic.com/2i6chao.png

 

http://i58.tinypic.com/apbri8.jpg

[Bike Mob]

Like the OP said, when he started this thread I emailed him personally to delete it and i would still send him the new invoice as soon as I can.

 

He has not and 10 pages of flaming later I dont actually want to help him anymore for obvious reasons.

 

I am not actually obliged to.

[Bike Mob]

Americo I am sorry you were not able to claim back the VAT with my original invoice. I was going to replace that with a new one for you to reclaim your money when my new business is VAT registered.

 

After being called a liar many times I am now not going to help you. End of story.

[Edge_Design]

Based on the below I don't think a new invoice when the registration comes through will be relevant if he left at the end of April. 

 

A VAT refund will only be considered where all of the following requirements are met:

• The purchaser must be a qualifying purchaser;

• The goods must be exported within 90 days from the date of the tax invoice;

• The VAT inclusive total of all purchases exported at one time must exceed the minimum of R250;

• The request for a refund, together with the relevant documentation, must be received by the VRA within three months of date of export; and

• The goods must be exported through one of the 43 designated commercial ports by the qualifying purchaser or the qualifying purchaser’s cartage contractor.