Epicbikeshop Cape Town . .VAT refund missing!

[Terence Hope]

I have done business with Zilla, his brother and father over the years many times both as a client and as a supplier.

 

They are stand up guys and I will not believe for a second that anything here was malicious.

 

Zilla, you have stated your case. I doubt that you will lose business due to this. So don't lose sleep over this

 

 

Stumbled upon this thread, just the last 2 pages sums this up for me. The bike shop states that at no point was VAT discussed nor did the OP question VAT prior to the conclusion of the deal. The OP has attached copies of emails above that state otherwise. As well as a (ill say it) fraudulent tx invoice reflecting another businesses tax number??? Wow, how are people still defending the shop? Something someone once told me, it takes a lifetime to create a reputation, a split second decision to destroy it! My 5 cents.

[Patchelicious]

Stumbled upon this thread, just the last 2 pages sums this up for me. The bike shop states that at no point was VAT discussed nor did the OP question VAT prior to the conclusion of the deal. The OP has attached copies of emails above that state otherwise. As well as a (ill say it) fraudulent tx invoice reflecting another businesses tax number??? Wow, how are people still defending the shop? Something someone once told me, it takes a lifetime to create a reputation, a split second decision to destroy it! My 5 cents.

Not defending. Stating my experiences with them. Use it don't use it. Everybody is entitled to make their own choices.

 

Nothing more nothing less.

[Skylark]

I have done business with Zilla, his brother and father over the years many times both as a client and as a supplier.

 

They are stand up guys and I will not believe for a second that anything here was malicious.

 

Zilla, you have stated your case. I doubt that you will lose business due to this. So don't lose sleep over this.

Bill Cosby effect?

 

I'd like to agree with you but Zilla's behaviour on this thread points otherwise, maybe he's just handled this with poor judgement but he certainly does not appear to be without blame, have yet to see an honest apology from him without adding a good dose of bad mouthing to it, that to me speaks volumes.

[YUMEYA]

Op can take one positive from his trip, is the fact that he survived our roads.

[Joe Massapuss]

ok jeez, i know pretty much nothing about vat laws and all that other stuff, and have just gotten into this thread today. Pretty exciting stuff, haha.

 

After reading over most of the replies on the last few pages, these are my thoughts...not that anyone should care!

 

Who cares if he paid his tax when he returned, like so many have said, that's not our issue and certainly not why this thread was started. Im not the "honesty" and "right thing to do" police, and neither is anyone here.

 

i don't know either of these people, and I am not getting paid "under the table" by any bike shops to post this, haha, seems like OP was told one thing, and has sufficient evidence as far as i bothered to check, to more or less back up what he has said. 

 

Epic should just help the dude out and try resolve the issue, sure things have been said in the heat of the moment, and poop has been flung, but come on, this is such a small issue in the greater scheme of things and frankly im surprised its gotten this many reply's, im actually surprised i have actually taken time out of may day to even bother with a post myself

 

Simply put, sort out the vat issue, and send off whatever the OP needs when its done. You don't even have to speak to each other EVER again, once everything is sorted, just email it over, simple as that. 

 

Sigh...i have too much time to waste  when looking at how much nonsense i just wrote!

[JGR]

I think Zilla is digging his own grave on this one. Why would a foreigner take all this time and effort if he did not have a leg to stand on? He has posted quite damming emails and correspondence which has not being denied by Zilla. 

 

Zilla has also threatened the OP over email and now on the open forum in a very childish tit for tat way. "I won't send you the invoice ....because xyz" Why are you trying to threaten and bully? 

 

Sorry Zilla but you are not covering yourself in glory on this one. It is very obvious to the neutral that the people who are defending you/harping on about the OP home vat ect. have some history with you. 

 

This reminds me of the Cajees employee's rant here sometime back except this time its the owner .... the amount of business/face you are potentially losing far out weights the value of the vat. 

[Falco]

There comes a point in time when things must end. Where this thread is concerned, that point was reached about 3 pages back.

 

The OP has done his whining, the accused has stated his side, and despite the fact that what he did was dumb (the VAT number part), his version seems plausible.

 

Enough already. The OP clearly has no intention of contributing anything meaningful to this thread, all he is doing is continually adding fuel to the fire in the hope of keeping it alive.

[EmptyB]

I'm just a neutral observer eating my popcorn.....

[JGR]

There comes a point in time when things must end. Where this thread is concerned, that point was reached about 3 pages back.

 

The OP has done his whining, the accused has stated his side, and despite the fact that what he did was dumb (the VAT number part), his version seems plausible.

 

Enough already. The OP clearly has no intention of contributing anything meaningful to this thread, all he is doing is continually adding fuel to the fire in the hope of keeping it alive.

 

Yeah and Lance never doped. Im sorry using a Vat number from another persons business and then writing down the last digit incorrectly because you were busy? Sending it to the airport knowing he wouldn't get his claim with it? Cmon man. His emails quite clearly state he advised the OP he would get his tax back. If he was not in a position to offer financial/tax advice he shouldn't have done so, as a business if you make a mistake you correct it not pass it onto the consumer? The vat back was crucial to the OP decisions to buy the bike from EBS 

 

It is worth saying I have used EBS before and their service was ok. So I have no personal issue with them 

[HDW]

Yeah and Lance never doped. Im sorry using a Vat number from another persons business and then writing down the last digit incorrectly because you were busy? Sending it to the airport knowing he wouldn't get his claim with it? Cmon man. His emails quite clearly state he advised the OP he would get his tax back. If he was not in a position to offer financial/tax advice he shouldn't have done so, as a business if you make a mistake you correct it not pass it onto the consumer? The vat back was crucial to the OP decisions to buy the bike from EBS 

 

It is worth saying I have used EBS before and their service was ok. So I have no personal issue with them 

Agree. I didn't even know they bike shop existed (and hopefully Specialized also doesn't know  ), but it is very clear what happened here. Playing the victim, and then getting your panties in a knot won't change the fact already provided in this thread.

 

Nothing to be done here though by the OP. He won't get his money back, so I propose he writes it off as school fees.

 

For the rest of us, at least we got a new perspective on some matters...

[jcza]

Customer in getting shafted by bike shop shocker. Nothing new. 

[GLuvsMtb]

Actually it does have bearing on the matter.

Taxation laws are not designed to penalise you twice. You pay the tax that your country of origin requires you to pay. If Amerigo declared his bike he would have been charged the difference between SA VAT and Italian VAT.

 

Often I buy things in Singapore and don't bother to claim the 9% VAT back at the airport. When i get back to SA I go through "Something to declare" and they charge me the difference, and they recover the remainder from Singapore tax authority.

 

When I take my bike out of the country I have to declare it at departure as part of my luggage and that  have owned it and not purchased within the last ( ithink its 6months or they want an invoice showing the items and value with serial number,make and model). Its marked tax exempt as its luggage. If I ditch it at my country of destination and when I return its not the same item they have on record its considered an import and I would be liabel for duty and VAT unless I can prove I paid VAT in Excess of SA VAT. SARS then recovers the 145 VAT from the other country taxation authority.

 

there is a very coordinated global effort to ensure goods movement is tightly controlled and that everyone benefits from the duties.

asking the OP to present his tax clearance documents is like asking Epic Bike Shop to present their VAT 201's with supporting docs. For me the big red flag is the seemingly incorrect VAT number instead of a mere "VAT Registration Pending" on the invoice. They should have also stated upfront that due to their registration being in process, the chances of a VAT refund would be zero and have referred the OP to another shop who could assist with the bike and a valid VAT invoice. Sometimes you have to walk away from a deal.

[raptor-22]

asking the OP to present his tax clearance documents is like asking Epic Bike Shop to present their VAT 201's with supporting docs. For me the big red flag is the seemingly incorrect VAT number instead of a mere "VAT Registration Pending" on the invoice. They should have also stated upfront that due to their registration being in process, the chances of a VAT refund would be zero and have referred the OP to another shop who could assist with the bike and a valid VAT invoice. Sometimes you have to walk away from a deal.

 

 

 

the big elephant in this lynching is "time"

not the bicycle brand, but the theoretical quantity influenced by gravity.

 

maybe try to piece the events together into a time frame to understand where the learnings are.

 

to me both parties are at fault.

 

BTW I've bought several goods and a couple bikes abroad while travelling. Never asked for a VAT refund from the bike shops on the other side, and declared the bikes upon arrival in Cape Town as my own goods form y own use an presented the invoices and was not ever charged a cent of VAT because as the customs official explained " you only pay the VAT once but we would prefer you pay it to us so remember next time to claim it back on hat side and then pay 14% in SA because it lower than the (then (17%) in the UK {18% in Germany}"

 

Since SA is a signatory to the WTO taxation treaty or whatever the thing is called I would assume it works the same across all countries who are signatory to the taxation scheme.

 

So still don't figure what the big fracas is about unless someone is trying to pull a fast one

[cycologiist]

This thread is boring. Surely there is a forum for all the genius tax and vat consultants that seem to be on here. The buyer said his bit, the LBS has said his, clearly there is no more to say and guess what, this isn't the platform for bloody VAT consulting!

 

I am sure they'll sort it out, its not like its a stolen bike or someone has died. Planks, rope, ladder = bridge to be built... NOW GET OVER IT   

 

Think its time we got back to bikes and how rad they are.

 

#OutsideIsFree Aweness!

[Edge_Design]

the big elephant in this lynching is "time"

not the bicycle brand, but the theoretical quantity influenced by gravity.

 

maybe try to piece the events together into a time frame to understand where the learnings are.

 

to me both parties are at fault.

 

BTW I've bought several goods and a couple bikes abroad while travelling. Never asked for a VAT refund from the bike shops on the other side, and declared the bikes upon arrival in Cape Town as my own goods form y own use an presented the invoices and was not ever charged a cent of VAT because as the customs official explained " you only pay the VAT once but we would prefer you pay it to us so remember next time to claim it back on hat side and then pay 14% in SA because it lower than the (then (17%) in the UK {18% in Germany}"

 

Since SA is a signatory to the WTO taxation treaty or whatever the thing is called I would assume it works the same across all countries who are signatory to the taxation scheme.

 

So still don't figure what the big fracas is about unless someone is trying to pull a fast one

 

Not to be funny, but I thought you bought things in Singapore and paid the difference in SA (somewhere around page 10)? Now it's the UK and Germany and you don't pay a cent. Please also clarify which law you were referring to earlier about VAT - you made a statement about it being the law to add VAT in this case but didn't specify which law as I wasn't aware of that in the case of a non vendor.

 

I have nothing personal against you as I have no idea who you are, but I battle with comments like that unless they are backed up by facts (and I'm sure you can see the inconsistency/confusion from those 2 comments of yours - there's probably a very logical explanation).

[Skylark]

^^ Looks like Zilla has found himself another account, Aweness!

 

the big elephant in this lynching is "time"

not the bicycle brand, but the theoretical quantity influenced by gravity.

 

maybe try to piece the events together into a time frame to understand where the learnings are.

 

to me both parties are at fault.

 

BTW I've bought several goods and a couple bikes abroad while travelling. Never asked for a VAT refund from the bike shops on the other side, and declared the bikes upon arrival in Cape Town as my own goods form y own use an presented the invoices and was not ever charged a cent of VAT because as the customs official explained " you only pay the VAT once but we would prefer you pay it to us so remember next time to claim it back on hat side and then pay 14% in SA because it lower than the (then (17%) in the UK {18% in Germany}"

 

Since SA is a signatory to the WTO taxation treaty or whatever the thing is called I would assume it works the same across all countries who are signatory to the taxation scheme.

 

So still don't figure what the big fracas is about unless someone is trying to pull a fast one

 

Well here's someone that's honest enough to owning up to what definitely looks like customs fraud and with a complicit customs official nogal. No customs cares what vat you paid wherever, you pay vat when you land in your country of origin full stop, unless you are raptor-22 and fiddle the books. Ok thats a bit of tongue and cheek for all the self righteous posts on this thread