Epicbikeshop Cape Town . .VAT refund missing!

[GLuvsMtb]

It seems like the VAT number used on the invoice is not a valid VAT number. This would explain why customs took the position they did.

 

 

 

 

Zilla, I have been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but in light of what I have read above, you are not covering yourself in glory here.

I thought that you may have invoiced the client under a different entity with a VAT number (you made mention of that), but you invoiced the client under an Epic Bike Shop invoice with a seemingly bogus VAT number. If under VAT number you had "VAT Registration Pending" or if the invoice was issued by a separate entity it would have made sense.

I suggest that you continue with your VAT registration as mentioned before and once you are VAT registered, you are to issue the purchaser with the correct VAT invoice. Note that it may be cheaper for you to not back-date your VAT registration, unless you have issued VAT invoices to other clients similar to Americo's invoice.

The implication is that you will not be able to claim the inputs for stock purchased historically, but on the upside you will not have to pay Output on sales made.

It will however cost you the VAT on this particular invoice because whether knowingly or unknowingly, you have acted outside of the law by using a bogus VAT number on your invoice. "Ignorantia juris non excusat" as my lawyer friends would say...

[GLuvsMtb]

[Icycling]

There is a separate charge for VAT on the invoice. Epic has charged VAT, but is not registered yet as a VAT vendor.

 

I understand that the shop is in the process of registration, but when and how was that VAT going to be paid to SARS. Whose VAT number appears on the invoice?

 

The Refund Administrator will not refund a foreigner his VAT unless they know the VAT was paid on the other side. I guess they validated the numbers and saw the one on the invoice was not valid and therefore denied the claim.

Thus the reason for my post showing (previos page - page 5) both customs stamp on an invoice RSA and The Netherlands. I choose to claim the vat in The Netherlands as its about 20% but I need to pay the 14% in RSA - this was just simple maths - take the cheaper rate!

 

Has Americo paid vat in 2 regions? If so, certainly he has been overcharged. This is never stated - if he expect the 14% back from RSA he had better have paid the Vat-able rate in the region he has taken the product too. If not it looks like too me he himself open to VAT / Customs and excretes duty fraud in the region he has taken the product too! If this is the case if I was Americo I would keep very quite.

[rock]

hence my question on page one and the OP's sarcy response....I'll bet he didnt pay EU vat upon arrival back home.

[KingTJ]

Thus the reason for my post showing (previos page - page 5) both customs stamp on an invoice RSA and The Netherlands. I choose to claim the vat in The Netherlands as its about 20% but I need to pay the 14% in RSA - this was just simple maths - take the cheaper rate!

 

Has Americo paid vat in 2 regions? If so, certainly he has been overcharged. This is never stated - if he expect the 14% back from RSA he had better have paid the Vat-able rate in the region he has taken the product too. If not it looks like too me he himself open to VAT / Customs and excretes duty fraud in the region he has taken the product too! If this is the case if I was Americo I would keep very quite.

hence my question on page one and the OP's sarcy response....I'll bet he didnt pay EU vat upon arrival back home.

What has got to do with the VAT from Epic, that is Americo's private problem, and has nothing to do with Epic's missing/false VAT number.

[Icycling]

What has got to do with the VAT from Epic, that is Americo's private problem, and has nothing to do with Epic's missing/false VAT number.

Lets say Epic bike shop was 100% vat registered and issued a correct Vat invoice. Then Epic bike shop to return the RSA Vat would need the invoice stamped not only by RSA Customs and Exercise showing the goods leaving the country but also a stamp on the invoice by customs and exercise showing the goods and been declared in the region they were taken too. If they were declared in that region then Vat and possible duty would have been paid in that region.

 

This was not bought on board an airplane where TAX free shopping is allowed. The world now is very integrated normal shipping methods require bill of lading / airway bills etc. But when you transport the goods as you language then you need to do things correctly which in turn means going Red Zone on arrival at the airport in the region you live. Lets face it a lot of people take chances and try not to declare goods - but then they are not entitles to receive vat refund from the land where they purchased the goods.

[ahp005]

What has got to do with the VAT from Epic, that is Americo's private problem, and has nothing to do with Epic's missing/false VAT number.

I second that!

[KingTJ]

Lets say Epic bike shop was 100% vat registered and issued a correct Vat invoice. Then Epic bike shop to return the RSA Vat would need the invoice stamped not only by RSA Customs and Exercise showing the goods leaving the country but also a stamp on the invoice by customs and exercise showing the goods and been declared in the region they were taken too. If they were declared in that region then Vat and possible duty would have been paid in that region.This was not bought on board an airplane where TAX free shopping is allowed. The world now is very integrated normal shipping methods require bill of lading / airway bills etc. But when you transport the goods as you language then you need to do things correctly which in turn means going Red Zone on arrival at the airport in the region you live. Lets face it a lot of people take chances and try not to declare goods - but then they are not entitles to receive vat refund from the land where they purchased the goods.

 

Still has nothing to do with the issue.... lets say, the above was true...then we would not be having this conversation.... Moving on back to the REAL issue of Epic charging VAT under (presumably) false VAT number.

[stringbean]

What I can't understand is the bike was bought more than 6 months ago.I know sars may be a little slow with vat registration but definitely NOT that slow.

There is more going on behind the scenes I fear.OP if you unhappy a simple letter to sars should clarify everything.I've found them very approachable and helpful if you are uncertain about anything.

[Icycling]

Still has nothing to do with the issue.... lets say, the above was true...then we would not be having this conversation.... Moving on back to the REAL issue of Epic charging VAT under (presumably) false VAT number.

Some shops have Tax refundable “licence” where they do all the paper work for. You show the goods on departing and you receive the money at the airport that you depart from (at some airport a high commission is charged by the handling agents).

 

Epic bike shop certainly dd not offer this service and never claimed to offer this service. I would be surprised if any bike shop in RSA offers this service but certainly some shops at The V & A waterfront might.

 

So until an invoice is produce showing the goods were declared on arrival on the region they were taken too - regardless if Epic bike shop was appropriately registered they could not refund the Vat.

 

Let see the invoice stamped in the region it was taken - or a mountain has been made of a mole hill.  Epic bike shop would not be able to refund the Vat with only RSA stamp and not stamp from region it was taken.

 

If Americo went Green zone (knowing he was carrying goods that should have been declared - Red zone) on arrival then he too has committed customs and Excersize / Vat fraud. Pot calling Kettle Black!

 

[Longbarn Killer]

Some shops have Tax refundable “licence” where they do all the paper work for. You show the goods on departing and you receive the money at the airport that you depart from.

 

Epic bike shop certainly dd not offer this service and never claimed to offer this service. I would be surprised if any bike shop in RSA offers this service but certainly some shops at The V & A waterfront might.

 

So until an invoice is produce showing the goods were declared on arrival on the region they were taken too - regardless if Epic bike shop was appropriately registered they could not refund the Vat.

 

Let see the invoice stamped in the region it was taken - or a mountain has been made of a mole hill. Epic bike shop would not be able to refund the Vat with only RSA stamp and not stamp from region it was taken.

 

If Americo went Green zone (knowing he was carrying goods that should have been declared - Red zone) on arrival then he too has committed customs and Excersize / Vat fraud. Pot calling Kettle Black!

 

no such thing as a tax refundable licence. The process is simple. Goods that are exported are exported at the zero rate. A direct export is one in which the seller consigns the goods to an export county.

 

Where a foreigner collects the goods himself, in this case Americo collected the goods, this is known as an indirect export. Because of the risk that the goods may never leave SA, SARS requires that VAT is charged by the seller. When the goods leave the country, the VAT is refunded.

 

 

The fact that the EU (or any other country) charges VAT when the goods enter their country has nothing to do with it. He is charged this irrespective of whether he was refunded his SA VAT or not. There is no choice in the matter. No one has an option to choose which VAT to pay.

 

We are not asking Epic to refund the VAT in terms of the export, we are saying they must refund the VAT because they charged VAT that should never have been charged. I understand Epics situation, but until you have that VAT number, you should not be mentioning VAT on the invoice or promising clients that they can get something back when they export the goods.

 

The fact that there is a number on the invoice, raises some rather difficult questions for Epic. That is between them and SARS.

[Skylark]

Speculating that the op may or may not be paying duties in his land of origin is neither here nor there, it's common knowledge that if a business invoices a client for vat they are obligated to pay that vat to Sars, if Sars at their discretion refunds that vat to the purchaser who in this case is a tourist that has zero material effect on the business.

 

A theme often raised in this thread is many implying that if there is a suspicion the op behaves unethically(in his own private capacity in a manner that has zero material impact on Epicbikeshop) they believe that gives Epicbikeshop a free pass to behave unethically in a manner that does affect the op materially. Is that considered good ethics in business?

[Icycling]

Speculating that the op may or may not be paying duties in his land of origin is neither here nor there, it's common knowledge that if a business invoices a client for vat they are obligated to pay that vat to Sars, if Sars at their discretion refunds that vat to the purchaser who in this case is a tourist that has zero material effect on the business.

 

A theme often raised in this thread is many implying that if there is a suspicion the op behaves unethically(in his own private capacity in a manner that has zero material impact on Epicbikeshop) they believe that gives Epicbikeshop a free pass to behave unethically in a manner that does affect the op materially. Is that considered good ethics in business?

As an importer into RSA, all I can say is my suppliers in Europe require when I collect my stock both the customs stamp from The Netherlands showing the goods have left the EU and the SARS showing the goods have arrived in, in this case RSA. My understanding from my suppliers it is the law in Europe - keeping the check and balances in place. I suspect RSA is no different. Both my suppliers and myself are Vat registered and thus it is no problem to do things 100% correctly!

 

 

Most recent example repeated below:

 

 

[stringbean]

Are you involved in epic bike shop I cycling?

[Icycling]

Are you involved in epic bike shop I cycling?

No more or less than a lot of other bike shops in RSA. I sell to many bike shops in the country and yes they have purchased goods I have imported (not many but some).

 

But as a importer of cycle product into RSA - I do like to be given a fair chance to make a living, by saying this, as I am subjected to Vat on my goods arriving in RSA, I would like to feel that the playing field are level. Thus people who go overseas and purchase items and come back to RSA and walk through customs without paying Vat / duties / clearing fees etc aggravates me.

 

No doubt importer / wholesalers in Americo land of origin - lets call it Italy - feel the same way.

 

I am by no means suggestion VAT should be paid in 2 different regions but I am suggesting they should be paid in 1.

[urbanroyal]

As an importer into RSA, all I can say is my suppliers in Europe require when I collect my stock both the customs stamp from The Netherlands showing the goods have left the EU and the SARS showing the goods have arrived in, in this case RSA. My understanding from my suppliers it is the law in Europe - keeping the check and balances in place. I suspect RSA is no different. Both my suppliers and myself are Vat registered and thus it is no problem to do things 100% correctly!

 

 

Most recent example repeated below:

 

 

This is interesting....in my 15 years of guiding...I've yet to hear a local jeweler tell the clients that they must pay the vat /tax when when they arrive back home...one of the selling points they use is,the vat refund ..so why pay vat on goods in your home country...maybe the laws are little different for peeps importing and exporting as a business than those buying for personal use...????