Is this a wise crack?

[HeyYou]

In late October 2009 I bought a ‘demo’ Commencal Meta4 frame from my LBS. They built it up for me using mostly slx parts. Bike was great, heavy, but comfortable, which is what I wanted. Did around 6000km on it, used it for ‘rides’ mainly, my Merida being the ‘week’ bike.

 

In May/June 2014 I noticed a crack in the frame, close to the top tube/head tube junction. Took it back to the LBS. LBS contacted the agents, 3 year warranty I was told, so it had obviously expired. Fair enough. The LBS arranged a replacement from the agents (no idea who they are) for R1500 + shipping – just the frame, not the swing arm section.

 

Again, fair enough, so I paid my money, received the frame and rebuilt the bike.

 

Two weeks ago I notice a crack in more or less the same place, see the pic.

 

I take it back to LBS, who make several phone calls, send pics etc, so they do all they can. Apparently, agents have a replacement frame, an 8 or 9 year old Meta4, but I need to again pay R1500 + shipping.

 

What happened to the 3 year warranty?

Why would I want to buy another frame that I know is prone to cracking?

If it was replaced under warranty, sure!

 

I’ve emailed Commencal home office in Andora, but no reply.

 

This is not really a RANT, cause I don’t know who the agents are. MY LBS offered to give me the number, but I think it’s a waste of time my contacting them. If they won’t listen to my LBS, which obviously stocks and sells their product, why the hell would they listen to me?

 

Before any wise comments, I still ride 26ers!!!!

[Tumbleweed]

Is it not more if a discounted replacement rather than a warranty replacement? You have nothing to stand on regarding the first one as it was as out of warranty...but the second bike would sorta count as a new purchase, I would think. Just a cheap price on old stock, but you'd still be the original owner.

 

That's if I have read this right.

[rudi-h]

I cracked 3 of those exact same frames.  One one the exact same spot and the other 2 where the shock mounting is attached to the down-tube.

 

I spoke directly to the agent (I think his name was Graham) and collected 2 new frames (out of the box) from them at no charge.

 

I cracked the 3rd frame too, but as the other components on the bike were moeg also, I opted to replace the bike instead of demanding a 3rd (26") frame that I was probably not going to use.

 

It seems that the frames have a design issue so I think a replacement from them is justified.

 

PS.  If you somehow cannot get a new frame from them, I had my 2nd frame (cracked the same spot as yours) re-welded by an aluminium welding specialist.  Make sure they remove the paint in the affected area, clean nicely with solvent (aluminium welding is prone to impurities because of contaminants) and weld nicely.  Do not attempt to grind the welding down, it won't look perfect, but you can get your bike back to a working condition for a few hundred ZAR

Edited October 30, 2015 by rudi-h

[HeyYou]

Is it not more if a discounted replacement rather than a warranty replacement? You have nothing to stand on regarding the first one as it was as out of warranty...but the second bike would sorta count as a new purchase, I would think. Just a cheap price on old stock, but you'd still be the original owner. That's if I have read this right.

 

Yes, you read it correctly. I am the original owner of the purchased replacement frame.

[HeyYou]

I cracked 3 of those exact same frames.  One one the exact same spot and the other 2 where the shock mounting is attached to the down-tube.

 

I spoke directly to the agent (I think his name was Graham) and collected 2 new frames (out of the box) from them at no charge.

 

I cracked the 3rd frame too, but as the other components on the bike were moeg also, I opted to replace the bike instead of demanding a 3rd (26") frame that I was probably not going to use.

 

It seems that the frames have a design issue so I think a replacement from them is justified.

 

PS.  If you somehow cannot get a new frame from them, I had my 2nd frame (cracked the same spot as yours) re-welded by an aluminium welding specialist.  Make sure they remove the paint in the affected area, clean nicely with solvent (aluminium welding is prone to impurities because of contaminants) and weld nicely.  Do not attempt to grind the welding down, it won't look perfect, but you can get your bike back to a working condition for a few hundred ZAR

Scouring the interwebs it seems that Commencal had quite a few cracking/breaking issues until about 2010. 

[popcorn_skollie]

Scouring the interwebs it seems that Commencal had quite a few cracking/breaking issues until about 2010. 

 

Yes they have. Countless ones have cracked at various places. Some later models have had gussets added to some of the common crack areas. Toptube, seatube weld being the most common. I have an 09 meta 5.5 model. But despite riding that bike like a villain it remains intact. Probably because I weigh just over 60kg. 

 

I hear your sentiments over a warranty replacement frame. The way I see it is you have 2 options.

 

Fork out the 2k. Once you have the new frame try selling it and getting another frame instead. Its a costly option assuming you are even able to sell it and you would probably just break even if you lucky. But after cracking 2 identical frames on the same spot I'd say its time to cut your losses and move on. 

 

Either that or take your chances with a repair. Cheaper. But you'll get nothing for the frame if you wanna move on later.

 

Either way you not going to enjoy riding the new or repaired commi frame the way it should be enjoyed. Based on your experience and expectations. It will be in the back of your mind every time you go out and ride and that's not a recipe for good fun.

 

Sorry for your loss boet. Good luck

[Fat Boab]

I'd pursue option #3: deal directly with the agent/company and get a free replacement frame. After that decide if you wish to sell it and move on, or ride it etc. Customers generally make a more compelling story than a LBS who may have other agenda to consider. Perhaps rudi-h has Graham's (?) details? Be polite, but firm. Customers should expect to have defective goods - due to design issues or otherwise - replaced free of charge. Just my €0.02....

[Dusty]

I've had experience with multiple cracked frames(of another brand) and their waranty was from the date of the purchase of the first frame ie the warranty did not renew with every new frame. (it was in the fine print). This may be applicable?? 

[madmarc]

I've had experience with multiple cracked frames(of another brand) and their waranty was from the date of the purchase of the first frame ie the warranty did not renew with every new frame. (it was in the fine print). This may be applicable?? 

You are correct but in this case, his 1st frame was not replaced under warranty, he purchased it. Even if it was at a discounted rate, this should not affect the warranty. But the local importor may choose not to give the warranty - this does not mean that there is no factory warranty - It means you need to deal direct with the factory, bypassing the local importer.

 

I just bought a brand knew TREK series 9.8 carbon frame from a LBS at a massively discounted price. On the receipt they have written "No Warranty" because the new importer is not prepared to get involved with warranty claims on bikes they never sold.

 

It's a pisspoor attitude to have but it is what it is.

 

But this does not mean the TREK lifetime warranty is gone, it simply means that if I have a claim then i will have to deal with TREK direct - A pain in the ass but worth it if I need a new frame.

I know guys who have been given complete new frames shipped to their door direct from the manufacturer - but it takes a long time.

 

I would get it welded - whats the point of getting a new warranty frame and then sitting with the same issue 12 months down the line.

 

A good welder will weld that crack stronger than what it was before

[Sepia]

.  "On the receipt they have written "No Warranty" because the new importer is not prepared to get involved with warranty claims on bikes they never sold."

 

I agree.  Piss poor attitude of the new importers.  My dealings with them have also not been good.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Sepia

[Tumbleweed]

You are correct but in this case, his 1st frame was not replaced under warranty, he purchased it. Even if it was at a discounted rate, this should not affect the warranty. But the local importor may choose not to give the warranty - this does not mean that there is no factory warranty - It means you need to deal direct with the factory, bypassing the local importer.

 

I just bought a brand knew TREK series 9.8 carbon frame from a LBS at a massively discounted price. On the receipt they have written "No Warranty" because the new importer is not prepared to get involved with warranty claims on bikes they never sold.

 

It's a pisspoor attitude to have but it is what it is.

 

But this does not mean the TREK lifetime warranty is gone, it simply means that if I have a claim then i will have to deal with TREK direct - A pain in the ass but worth it if I need a new frame.

I know guys who have been given complete new frames shipped to their door direct from the manufacturer - but it takes a long time.

 

I would get it welded - whats the point of getting a new warranty frame and then sitting with the same issue 12 months down the line.

 

A good welder will weld that crack stronger than what it was before

 

This kind of thing actually warrants, ahem, a thread of its own. Technically, no one should be allowed to waive your right for a warranty. Even on something heavily discounted. The agency changing hands things is a bit complicated, and, to my knowledge, yet tested under the CPA, which is very firm on warranties. The agency model is weird because the new agent doesn't but the old one's business, just becomes a new importer. I'm in Durbs today with my consumer journo mate. I'll get her thoughts on this.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Tumbleweed

[Tumbleweed]

Yes, you read it correctly. I am the original owner of the purchased replacement frame.

 

Then legally that frame should be replaced under warranty.Edit: And the timeframe you mention, two weeks, means you should incur no cost whatsoever.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Tumbleweed

[Tumbleweed]

This kind of thing actually warrants, ahem, a thread of its own. Technically, no one should be allowed to waive your right for a warranty. Even on something heavily discounted. The agency changing hands things is a bit complicated, and, to my knowledge, yet tested under the CPA, which is very firm on warranties. The agency model is weird because the new agent doesn't but the old one's business, just becomes a new importer. I'm in Durbs today with my consumer journo mate. I'll get her thoughts on this.

 

 

I checked this, and the LBS can definitely not refuse a warranty, regardless of what the agency is or isn't willing to do. What it could do is offer you a discounted price and declare that it will not honour the manufacturer's warranty - a three-year, five-year, limited-lifetime, lifetime, etc - but it cannot ask you to forgo the warranty rights as prescribed under the CPA. The shop's issue with the agent and what they are or aren't willing to do, is the shop's issue not the consumer's. If the frameof the bike you bought cracked, broke, was fautly, the shop has to refund, repair or replace with something of similar quality.     

[HeyYou]

I checked this, and the LBS can definitely not refuse a warranty, regardless of what the agency is or isn't willing to do. What it could do is offer you a discounted price and declare that it will not honour the manufacturer's warranty - a three-year, five-year, limited-lifetime, lifetime, etc - but it cannot ask you to forgo the warranty rights as prescribed under the CPA. The shop's issue with the agent and what they are or aren't willing to do, is the shop's issue not the consumer's. If the frameof the bike you bought cracked, broke, was fautly, the shop has to refund, repair or replace with something of similar quality.     

 

Yes, I get this, but I have a good relationship with the LBS!!!

 

All that will happen is that I'll piss them off.

 

They won't get any joy from the 'importer', so they'll take the loss, but my relationship with them will be gone!!!

 

I think I'll get the 'importers' details and see if I can persuade them!

 

Perhaps time to get a little tougher.

[Tumbleweed]

Yes, I get this, but I have a good relationship with the LBS!!!

 

All that will happen is that I'll piss them off.

 

They won't get any joy from the 'importer', so they'll take the loss, but my relationship with them will be gone!!!

 

I think I'll get the 'importers' details and see if I can persuade them!

 

Perhaps time to get a little tougher.

 

I get that!

 

Cool! Hope ya come right...

[Eddy Gordo]

Try posting it on their twitter and facebook accounts.