New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[davetapson]

20 hours ago, patches said:

 😅 I plan to fly my Mom out here for half-a-year at a time (until I can get her residency), I'll see how she finds the first few trips, and I may try her out on some slightly longer (but more budget friendly) routes (Singapore, Emirates, etc).

It kind of kills the helping the budget thing, but if you turn the transfer into a layover, then the longer flights become more pleasant. And assuming the layover is somewhere pleasant.

When we were looking for flights to SA over Christmas, I found cheap flights via the US(!) which would have given us the advantage to visit my brother - I was told that it would be a step too far, probably correctly so... 🙂

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:53 PM, davetapson said:

Ha - the old schooling debate.

Saffas are really wound up by this - us included.

Kiwis, not so much.

Bottom line, if you live in a decent area, the schools are likely to be just fine.

I work with a guy who has 5 kids, who have just about all gone to different schools and he has no real feeling for any of those schools - they were all 'fine'.

You will pay a premium to live in a 'desirable' school zone, particularly if the Chinese community find the schools desirable - they will pay over the odds for any pile of junk just to ensure they have an address in the school zone.

It seems more important to choose a school that suits your kids character e.g regimented for kids who need structure (Westlake Boys) more flexible for those who don't (Rangitoto College) smaller for kids who are not mainstream (Rosmini College)

There are private schools (Kristin College) that are allegedly a cut above the rest. We would probably send our kids there if we're had the means, but I'm not sure it would really make a difference.

If you have aspirations, you'd probably want to find an address in Auckland Grammar zone... 🙂

Edit: and it's actually about the teacher, not the school - good school, bad child/teacher fit and it's a misery. And that combination is just a roll of the dice...

 

I can only confirm your good teacher advice.
We experienced this first hand with our son in Grade R last year. First term he was with a good but fairly inexperienced teacher who then left to pursue further studies.
He then had the best teacher ever, a 60+yr old lady who expanded his mind immensely. The speed with which he learnt was amazing to see. The school itself though is also incredible. We really hope to find something similar for him when our NZ journey starts.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Steven Knoetze (sk27)

[hayleyearth]

We are still in SA currently, it's week 5 for us and we are on a big road trip currently. Started at my folks place in Bushmans river mouth (close to Port Alfred) up the less dangerous route through Elliot, Underberg, Howick, Centre Drakensberg, now in the Northern Drakensberg and then Clarens before making the journey back to my folks. (So basically circling Lesotho.)

 

Here's my view:

All small towns have become dumps. 

Even places like Howick we didn't feel comfortable at all parking at Woolworths foods and then the Howick falls.

 

The roads are in pieces. I can't see any parts okay to drive at night anymore. I remembered Underberg not to be bad at all, it's like a township now. We keep on asking ourselves "where do the middle-class people living here (or farmers) buy groceries".

 

Groceries prices ... Wow!!! The same as in NZ with way less options. We miss our fresh salmon and fish we buy weekly at the grocery store and our multi seed breads and and and

 

Load shedding...In Bushmans river they don't get loadshedding because they have the water filtration plant there and on our trip or places we stayed elsewhere we mostly had access to gas stoves or generators. But I can see the areas is places on the businesses and restaurants.

 

The radio news bulletins constantly speak about Eskom, the price hikes, the attempted murder of the CEO etc etc but I never hear something about the roads, it is the infrastructure needed to keep a lot going in the country.

 

This country is now in big trouble.

 

 

[patches]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:53 AM, davetapson said:

Ha - the old schooling debate.

Saffas are really wound up by this - us included.

Kiwis, not so much.

Bottom line, if you live in a decent area, the schools are likely to be just fine.

I work with a guy who has 5 kids, who have just about all gone to different schools and he has no real feeling for any of those schools - they were all 'fine'.

You will pay a premium to live in a 'desirable' school zone, particularly if the Chinese community find the schools desirable - they will pay over the odds for any pile of junk just to ensure they have an address in the school zone.

It seems more important to choose a school that suits your kids character e.g regimented for kids who need structure (Westlake Boys) more flexible for those who don't (Rangitoto College) smaller for kids who are not mainstream (Rosmini College)

There are private schools (Kristin College) that are allegedly a cut above the rest. We would probably send our kids there if we're had the means, but I'm not sure it would really make a difference.

If you have aspirations, you'd probably want to find an address in Auckland Grammar zone... 🙂

Edit: and it's actually about the teacher, not the school - good school, bad child/teacher fit and it's a misery. And that combination is just a roll of the dice...

 

 

18 hours ago, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

I can only confirm your good teacher advice.
We experienced this first hand with our son in Grade R last year. First term he was with a good but fairly inexperienced teacher who then left to pursue further studies.
He then had the best teacher ever, a 60+yr old lady who expanded his mind immensely. The speed with which he learnt was amazing to see. The school itself though is also incredible. We really hope to find something similar for him when our NZ journey starts.

I worked with a guy who took on $500k extra debt to sell his house and move 2km away (but on the right side) of the highway to send his son to Westlake Boys.

Seems ludicrous! (although we're currently zoned for Westlake, unintentionally, haha)

So yeah, some Kiwis can be really would up when it comes to grammar schools, but like davetapson said, us Saffers are very "school conscious" and I think it goes back to the private school obsession that middle-to-upper Saffers have back in the homeland.

Some can't conceive of sending their kids to a government school, unless it's one of those prestigious ones that breeds elite sportsmen as well as young men with big egos (no offence to anyone who went to KES, haha).

In a similar vein, most middle-to-upper class Saffers wouldn't dare risk treatment in a government hospital. Private healthcare seems like the only way to survive a medical ordeal.

However it's different here. The public offerings are generally excellent, and in many cases on par with, or better than the private offerings in SA. (I can affirm that especially in the healthcare sector).

So like davetapson said, don't stress too much over it. If you pick a decent area, schooling will be fine. Plus it sounds like you have a few years to go before you send the youngster off to highschool, which buys you time to get more familiar with areas and where you want to be.

If you really wanted to be selective, previously you could try judge a school on its decile ranking (1-10, with 10 being the schools in wealthy socio-economic areas), but this year the Ministry of Education did away with the decile system and created an "Equity Index" where I think the lower the score, the less the socio-economic challenges faces by students and families.

https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/changes-in-education/equity-index/how-the-equity-index-works/

Here's a snippet of the top handful

But hey, it's just school! I went to very average government schools and I turned out just fine 😅

 

 

[patches]

Also just in... Jacinda has announced she's stepping down as Prime Minister

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130990117/live-jacinda-ardern-announces-she-will-resign-as-prime-minister-by-february-7

[davetapson]

55 minutes ago, patches said:

 

I worked with a guy who took on $500k extra debt to sell his house and move 2km away (but on the right side) of the highway to send his son to Westlake Boys.

Seems ludicrous! (although we're currently zoned for Westlake, unintentionally, haha)

So yeah, some Kiwis can be really would up when it comes to grammar schools, but like davetapson said, us Saffers are very "school conscious" and I think it goes back to the private school obsession that middle-to-upper Saffers have back in the homeland.

Some can't conceive of sending their kids to a government school, unless it's one of those prestigious ones that breeds elite sportsmen as well as young men with big egos (no offence to anyone who went to KES, haha).

In a similar vein, most middle-to-upper class Saffers wouldn't dare risk treatment in a government hospital. Private healthcare seems like the only way to survive a medical ordeal.

However it's different here. The public offerings are generally excellent, and in many cases on par with, or better than the private offerings in SA. (I can affirm that especially in the healthcare sector).

So like davetapson said, don't stress too much over it. If you pick a decent area, schooling will be fine. Plus it sounds like you have a few years to go before you send the youngster off to highschool, which buys you time to get more familiar with areas and where you want to be.

If you really wanted to be selective, previously you could try judge a school on its decile ranking (1-10, with 10 being the schools in wealthy socio-economic areas), but this year the Ministry of Education did away with the decile system and created an "Equity Index" where I think the lower the score, the less the socio-economic challenges faces by students and families.

https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/changes-in-education/equity-index/how-the-equity-index-works/

Here's a snippet of the top handful

But hey, it's just school! I went to very average government schools and I turned out just fine 😅

 

 

Interesting.  Our kids moved from Mairangi Bay Primary (38) to Murrays Bay Intermediate (139), within walking distance of each other, and I can't say that I've noticed much of a difference.

Also you never hear much of Takapuna Grammar, but it looks like it could be awesome, if that sort of thing is your cup of tea.

 

51 minutes ago, patches said:

Also just in... Jacinda has announced she's stepping down as Prime Minister

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130990117/live-jacinda-ardern-announces-she-will-resign-as-prime-minister-by-february-7

Heh - last time she was globe-trotting with her entourage, she was show having a meeting with some international body (WHO, UN? Can't remember) and somebody, maybe Barry Soper, commented "yeh, she's organizing her next job, she'll resign before the next election and take this job."

So watch this space...

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

7 hours ago, patches said:

 

I worked with a guy who took on $500k extra debt to sell his house and move 2km away (but on the right side) of the highway to send his son to Westlake Boys.

Seems ludicrous! (although we're currently zoned for Westlake, unintentionally, haha)

So yeah, some Kiwis can be really would up when it comes to grammar schools, but like davetapson said, us Saffers are very "school conscious" and I think it goes back to the private school obsession that middle-to-upper Saffers have back in the homeland.

Some can't conceive of sending their kids to a government school, unless it's one of those prestigious ones that breeds elite sportsmen as well as young men with big egos (no offence to anyone who went to KES, haha).

In a similar vein, most middle-to-upper class Saffers wouldn't dare risk treatment in a government hospital. Private healthcare seems like the only way to survive a medical ordeal.

However it's different here. The public offerings are generally excellent, and in many cases on par with, or better than the private offerings in SA. (I can affirm that especially in the healthcare sector).

So like davetapson said, don't stress too much over it. If you pick a decent area, schooling will be fine. Plus it sounds like you have a few years to go before you send the youngster off to highschool, which buys you time to get more familiar with areas and where you want to be.

If you really wanted to be selective, previously you could try judge a school on its decile ranking (1-10, with 10 being the schools in wealthy socio-economic areas), but this year the Ministry of Education did away with the decile system and created an "Equity Index" where I think the lower the score, the less the socio-economic challenges faces by students and families.

https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/changes-in-education/equity-index/how-the-equity-index-works/

Here's a snippet of the top handful

But hey, it's just school! I went to very average government schools and I turned out just fine 😅

 

 

That's what you think............

6 hours ago, davetapson said:

Interesting.  Our kids moved from Mairangi Bay Primary (38) to Murrays Bay Intermediate (139), within walking distance of each other, and I can't say that I've noticed much of a difference.

Also you never hear much of Takapuna Grammar, but it looks like it could be awesome, if that sort of thing is your cup of tea.

 

Heh - last time she was globe-trotting with her entourage, she was show having a meeting with some international body (WHO, UN? Can't remember) and somebody, maybe Barry Soper, commented "yeh, she's organizing her next job, she'll resign before the next election and take this job."

So watch this space...

My money is on WHO..........

[hayleyearth]

13 hours ago, patches said:

 

I worked with a guy who took on $500k extra debt to sell his house and move 2km away (but on the right side) of the highway to send his son to Westlake Boys.

Seems ludicrous! (although we're currently zoned for Westlake, unintentionally, haha)

So yeah, some Kiwis can be really would up when it comes to grammar schools, but like davetapson said, us Saffers are very "school conscious" and I think it goes back to the private school obsession that middle-to-upper Saffers have back in the homeland.

Some can't conceive of sending their kids to a government school, unless it's one of those prestigious ones that breeds elite sportsmen as well as young men with big egos (no offence to anyone who went to KES, haha).

In a similar vein, most middle-to-upper class Saffers wouldn't dare risk treatment in a government hospital. Private healthcare seems like the only way to survive a medical ordeal.

However it's different here. The public offerings are generally excellent, and in many cases on par with, or better than the private offerings in SA. (I can affirm that especially in the healthcare sector).

So like davetapson said, don't stress too much over it. If you pick a decent area, schooling will be fine. Plus it sounds like you have a few years to go before you send the youngster off to highschool, which buys you time to get more familiar with areas and where you want to be.

If you really wanted to be selective, previously you could try judge a school on its decile ranking (1-10, with 10 being the schools in wealthy socio-economic areas), but this year the Ministry of Education did away with the decile system and created an "Equity Index" where I think the lower the score, the less the socio-economic challenges faces by students and families.

https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/changes-in-education/equity-index/how-the-equity-index-works/

Here's a snippet of the top handful

But hey, it's just school! I went to very average government schools and I turned out just fine 😅

 

 

My daughter is starting school this year. It's a scary thought as I dislike the way kids are taught in NZ.

We applied to 2 schools "out of zone", one 2km from our house and one 4km from our house. She got into both. The latter is a 349 on the list and the other a 364.

 

I also believe the teacher is what makes it, one teacher might not work for all but if the kid and her/him is in the same brain space then it's going to be a good fit.

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

56 minutes ago, hayleyearth said:

My daughter is starting school this year. It's a scary thought as I dislike the way kids are taught in NZ.

We applied to 2 schools "out of zone", one 2km from our house and one 4km from our house. She got into both. The latter is a 349 on the list and the other a 364.

 

I also believe the teacher is what makes it, one teacher might not work for all but if the kid and her/him is in the same brain space then it's going to be a good fit.

If I may ask, what are the dislikes with the way kids are taught?

 

[patches]

12 hours ago, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

That's what you think............

My money is on WHO..........

or WEF

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

8 hours ago, patches said:

or WEF

Makes more sense yes. Definitely pushed the same agenda.
Next to go will be Trudeau....... Same agenda, same outcome.

[hayleyearth]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:29 PM, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

If I may ask, what are the dislikes with the way kids are taught?

 

They do no repetitive work.

So they practice (I shouldn't even call it that) something once and then move on so it can stay to be fun and entertaining rather than the child getting use to it and and 'sticking'.

One example: In SA the Pre-schools have end-of-year concerts, where the kids actually act or do a performance of some sorts and they sing the actual songs with someone playing the background music. In NZ the kids just stand around and sing along if they want to to the full song being played. So acting. As if the teachers don't know how to get the kids to listen and follow orders and then remember it to perform it on a certain day. It's shocking actually this comparison. As a toddler and pre-schooler those are still some of my fondest memories.

 

The kids don't have to sit in the certain time in class where everyone is doing maths for instance, they can choose to go build puzzles or do another activity.

 

My sister is a teacher in NZ and she needs to prepare her classes to have these different types of activities available for if the child does not want to do what the teacher want (need) to focus on at that particular time.

 

My daughter is 4 years old, they don't do nursary rymes or 'familiar' songs like we use to do at school repetitively so we remember them, no, here they listen to songs on YouTube and dance like crazy people with no defined moves being taught. She can't sing one English song still. 

 

I'm so so scared of school.

What about the timetables?

[hayleyearth]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:29 PM, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

If I may ask, what are the dislikes with the way kids are taught?

 

They do no repetitive work.

So they practice (I shouldn't even call it that) something once and then move on so it can stay to be fun and entertaining rather than the child getting use to it and and 'sticking'.

One example: In SA the Pre-schools have end-of-year concerts, where the kids actually act or do a performance of some sorts and they sing the actual songs with someone playing the background music. In NZ the kids just stand around and sing along if they want to to the full song being played. So acting. As if the teachers don't know how to get the kids to listen and follow orders and then remember it to perform it on a certain day. It's shocking actually this comparison. As a toddler and pre-schooler those are still some of my fondest memories.

 

The kids don't have to sit in the certain time in class where everyone is doing maths for instance, they can choose to go build puzzles or do another activity.

 

My sister is a teacher in NZ and she needs to prepare her classes to have these different types of activities available for if the child does not want to do what the teacher want (need) to focus on at that particular time.

 

My daughter is 4 years old, they don't do nursary rymes or 'familiar' songs like we use to do at school repetitively so we remember them, no, here they listen to songs on YouTube and dance like crazy people with no defined moves being taught. She can't sing one English song still. 

 

I'm so so scared of school.

What about the timetables?

[Wayne Potgieter]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:12 AM, hayleyearth said:

They do no repetitive work.

So they practice (I shouldn't even call it that) something once and then move on so it can stay to be fun and entertaining rather than the child getting use to it and and 'sticking'.

One example: In SA the Pre-schools have end-of-year concerts, where the kids actually act or do a performance of some sorts and they sing the actual songs with someone playing the background music. In NZ the kids just stand around and sing along if they want to to the full song being played. So acting. As if the teachers don't know how to get the kids to listen and follow orders and then remember it to perform it on a certain day. It's shocking actually this comparison. As a toddler and pre-schooler those are still some of my fondest memories.

 

The kids don't have to sit in the certain time in class where everyone is doing maths for instance, they can choose to go build puzzles or do another activity.

 

My sister is a teacher in NZ and she needs to prepare her classes to have these different types of activities available for if the child does not want to do what the teacher want (need) to focus on at that particular time.

 

My daughter is 4 years old, they don't do nursary rymes or 'familiar' songs like we use to do at school repetitively so we remember them, no, here they listen to songs on YouTube and dance like crazy people with no defined moves being taught. She can't sing one English song still. 

 

I'm so so scared of school.

What about the timetables?

Our experience has been incredibly different.

I have two VERY different children academically. My son is smart and lazy, he needs to be "entertained" and constantly supervised or he will drift off of subject and day dream. My Daughter is in the 98th percentile and is managed through the SENCO office at the school. 

Each child has a very different learning path and both schools have done an amazing job of catering for them. They both LOVE school and are learning at a rate that is pleasing to me. Having teachers and an education system that is malleable allows for different approaches with different kids. If my daughter were to be put in a group that moved at the same pace, she would hate school as it would be boring. Inversely, my son would have plenty of opportunity to "hide" within a large group.

I think the teachers are what makes the difference, we have been fortunate in that all of the teachers we have experienced (in particular in Orewa) have been phenomenal.

My kids are fluent in timetables and do lots of songs and creative work. 

Whilst I am not disagreeing with your experience H, I do wonder if thigs are different the older they get. My daughter is now entering year 6 (although technically she is doing year 8 work with her teachers) so they are quite a bit older than yours. Perhaps this is the key difference. Sure, I don't think the NZ system is perfect, but I am positive about it and my children are thriving. My in laws were here a few weeks ago and we were comparing my nephew's education to my children's and I can hand on heart state that (at least for my kids) I am incredibly grateful that they are here. 

[Wayne Potgieter]

On a slightly separate note, but still closely associated with education, I have just been writing a Uni Paper on the Social Progress Index. Its quite a cool idea.

Essentially, it holistically looks at multiple facets of life and assesses what the generation progress is like. Basically, is there forward movement across generations. It then takes this data and measures different countries. So you can see whether your children will live a better life than you did depending on where you live.

South Africa is ranked in Tier 4 (the lowest tier is 6) at number 80 with a score of 69.17 whereas NZ is ranked in Tier 1 at number 12 in the world.

This index takes into account:

• Nutrition and medical care
• Water and sanitation
• Shelter
• Safety
• education
• Access to information
• Health and wellness
• Personal rights
• Freedom
• Access to advanced education
• Inclusiveness

https://www.socialprogress.org/index/global/results

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

I think in general, education lately seems to be a one fit, I am glad to hear of the process Wayne described because we are in the same boat with our son and daughter. Yet we also have the older daughter who tracks more like the son in Wayne's example.

I think the "entertaining" educational model is becoming more and more prevalent though. While I understand the times table thing, how relevant is it in the day and age of computers and smartphones. Don't get me wrong, our kids will learn it, even if we have to do it at home. I think education needs more practical subjects though, for one "how to run a household/personal budget", etc.

I also think a lot of education can (and should) happen at home, but with 2 working parents in a household this is perhaps not always happening. It can't only be the schools responsibility surely? Again, our oldest daughters father believes everything should happen at school, including homework(?), and gives zero additional educational attention. and then wonders why she struggles at times.

Selecting the correct school for your individual childs needs is the most important thing I think,