Carbon Clinchers braking surface lifespan

[Patchelicious]

Or I hate to say it.... Dura ace wheels..

ewwwww

[Barend de Arend]

What he said.

 

If you want your pads to last longer, your rims will wear out quicker. A certain amount of friction has to be created to stop you and your carbon wheel shod steed.

 

There are only two things touching each other during braking, rims and pads. One has got to absorb the energy.

 

The real solutions disk brakes

 

Road brakes are disk brakes.  A 622mm rotor, and a caliper.

 

Wanting to put a second disc on there, of only 140mm, on just one side, and putting all the brake force through the spokes is nuts.

['Dale]

The heavier you are, the quicker the wear on those brieke

 

Justsaying

[gummibear]

The heavier you are, the quicker the wear on those brieke

 

Justsaying

Seen a few skinny race snakes on delaminated wheels  

[gummibear]

The real solutions disk brakes

They have their problems to...saw 2 forks yesterday that 1 had snapped and 1 the front brake mounts broke off.

 

Not so sure i'll be able to trust carbon disc forks again  

[carbon29er]

They have their problems to...saw 2 forks yesterday that 1 had snapped and 1 the front brake mounts broke off.

 

Not so sure i'll be able to trust carbon disc forks again  

Hopefully it was the mother f...... son of a wh..re who stole my bike in France in July. Well, here's wishing anyway.

[Patchelicious]

They have their problems to...saw 2 forks yesterday that 1 had snapped and 1 the front brake mounts broke off.

 

Not so sure i'll be able to trust carbon disc forks again

Yes, everything "has its problems too" it's about which has less problems. I'm pretty are disks "had their problems too" when they showed up on road MTBs at first, as did dropper posts as did almost anything at first.

 

When I was going down Treudouw pass at DC in the wet, on carbon wheels with almost 0 braking I was wishing I had disks..... I would much rather have a 0.0000001% chance of a frame failure than a 100% chance of massive reduction in stopping power everytime it gets moist.

 

I will put money on it that disks will be the norm in 2-3 years. All current study's and analysis show that they improve descending through modulation and consistency, if more R&D needs to be done and the frames need to be adapted then they must. Nothing is perfect at first pass, but that doesn't mean it's a *** idea.

[carbon29er]

Having used disc brakes on the road I would say my descending has improved significantly due to confidence about modulation and consistent stopping power. Pyrenees were a jol as a result.  In exactly the same way mountain biking became more enjoyable when disc brakes replaced V brakes.

 

In the DC this weekend I was on rim brakes, slipstreaming downhill was a 'mare with wet rims as pulling the lever had little effect in terms of slowing down. I'd say bunch riding is much easier with discs.

 

It's not only the feel, pads on disc brakes are significantly cheaper than rim brakes. And they last. I get about 1,000km out of SwissStop carbon pads, I'd done 3,500km on the original pads when my bike was nicked.

 

Start the new build tomorrow with SRAM Red22 Hydro.

[Barend de Arend]

When I was going down Treudouw pass at DC in the wet, on carbon wheels with almost 0 braking I was wishing I had disks..... I would much rather have a 0.0000001% chance of a frame failure than a 100% chance of massive reduction in stopping power everytime it gets moist.

 

I will put money on it that disks will be the norm in 2-3 years. All current study's and analysis show that they improve descending through modulation and consistency, if more R&D needs to be done and the frames need to be adapted then they must. Nothing is perfect at first pass, but that doesn't mean it's a *** idea.

 

You're comparing steel rotors with hydraulic calibers to carbon rotors with cable calipers.  Using carbon rotors will have it's problems too.

 

I do agree that disk brakes are coming.  I also think the first generation is going to have problems:

• there's more stress on the fork because the calipers are down low.
• there's more stress on the spokes because brake force travels to the spokes
• there's even more stress on the fork and hub because the brake is just one side, so it's twisting.
• there's heat problems, because the rotor is now 140 mm instead of 622 mm (comparing metal to metal)
• wheel swaps are more difficult, since pad alignment is more critical (the pad gaps are smaller, and not adjustable from the cockpit)
• the rotor has a problem with diesel splashes
• more complicated, expensive

 

Of course there are positives

• better brake feel (but there's hydraulic rim too: sram, magura, rotor)
• brake surface independent from tyre bead surface (two stresses are now split)
• we've got wider tyres now (25 and 28), so we've got more rubber to use when braking
• the rotor doesn't have a problem with rain splashes

 

Here are the reasons they're coming

• carbon rim brake nightmares
• aero brake nightmares
• the price difference is a problem for commuters, but not racers
• the complexity has been accepted by the market (aero brakes; mtbs)
• marketing, marketing, marketing
• 29er was a success, manufacturers need something new

 

I wish I could believe they're coming because they're better at being brakes; but not a single manufacturer has yet produced data that shows they're better.  One would assume that it's easy to produce a stopping distance table for different brakes from 40 km/h to 0, and show that new brakes are better.

 

The fact that this data is missing, and that it would be easy to produce, and that it would be a slam-dunk for marketing makes me think that there is no such data.  We have weight data, aero data, rolling resistance data, but no stopping distance data?

[Patchelicious]

*snip

 

I wish I could believe they're coming because they're better at being brakes; but not a single manufacturer has yet produced data that shows they're better.  One would assume that it's easy to produce a stopping distance table for different brakes from 40 km/h to 0, and show that new brakes are better.

 

The fact that this data is missing, and that it would be easy to produce, and that it would be a slam-dunk for marketing makes me think that there is no such data.  We have weight data, aero data, rolling resistance data, but no stopping distance data?

 

The marketing data you are looking for, say a 40-0 wont be much different, because on in controlled conditions such a straight flat clean road, the ultimate limiting factor is still the contact patch with the road. You can lock up a wheel even on carbon rims.

 

The difference is in the slightly harder to measure real world. A good test base is the fact that people are faster on disks, as they have more control and therefore confidence etc.

 

 

[shaper]

You're comparing steel rotors with hydraulic calibers to carbon rotors with cable calipers.  Using carbon rotors will have it's problems too.

 

I do agree that disk brakes are coming.  I also think the first generation is going to have problems:

• there's more stress on the fork because the calipers are down low.
• there's more stress on the spokes because brake force travels to the spokes
• there's even more stress on the fork and hub because the brake is just one side, so it's twisting.
• there's heat problems, because the rotor is now 140 mm instead of 622 mm (comparing metal to metal)
• wheel swaps are more difficult, since pad alignment is more critical (the pad gaps are smaller, and not adjustable from the cockpit)
• the rotor has a problem with diesel splashes
• more complicated, expensive

 

Of course there are positives

• better brake feel (but there's hydraulic rim too: sram, magura, rotor)
• brake surface independent from tyre bead surface (two stresses are now split)
• we've got wider tyres now (25 and 28), so we've got more rubber to use when braking
• the rotor doesn't have a problem with rain splashes

 

Here are the reasons they're coming

• carbon rim brake nightmares
• aero brake nightmares
• the price difference is a problem for commuters, but not racers
• the complexity has been accepted by the market (aero brakes; mtbs)
• marketing, marketing, marketing
• 29er was a success, manufacturers need something new

 

I wish I could believe they're coming because they're better at being brakes; but not a single manufacturer has yet produced data that shows they're better.  One would assume that it's easy to produce a stopping distance table for different brakes from 40 km/h to 0, and show that new brakes are better.

 

The fact that this data is missing, and that it would be easy to produce, and that it would be a slam-dunk for marketing makes me think that there is no such data.  We have weight data, aero data, rolling resistance data, but no stopping distance data?

Also on why they are coming, you missed out the N+1 factor