Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Imagine a group of 500 plus riders all with aero bars and they go down at pace at the front with all those bars ready to skewer the riders about to race into the unfolding carnage laying around waiting like a trap.... Difference with the Ero bars is the lack of control over your own bike, not the lack of control of the dudes around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Ja, ummm, no. Lets not get inexperienced, unfamiliar riders leaning into each other in races ekse! Especially if some of them have never had anyone touch them while riding at pace and they are sporting wide MTB type bars... If you are at the sharp end of the bunches there is no excuse. You need to get the skills, you seem to know what is needed so ..... Pieterlab1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZRider Posted November 30, 2015 Share Can't understand why the drops are unreachable. The stem and bars are so low on that flat bar set up that a higher bar with a shallow droo will deliver a similar set up. What am I missing?Drops are reachable but tilting my head puts pressure on my plastic disc causing spasms.A steeper stem makes the bike less stable and if the drops don't "drop" your position there is no point. A flat bar handles better and gives better control on the descent than braking from the hoods on steep descents. Here in Tzaneen we have plenty of steep descents! raptor-22 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share snipped Anyone behind me that dares to shout hold your line will get an earful and if I am on the rivets may get switched, just because I can! 1. Get guys to up the bunch riding skills Just trying to work out how these two thoughts work together Dick. Please explain for those of us that don't do erratic tight group movements, signal for space and speak to people when coming up behind them in an echelon so that they know we're there. (Trying to make it safe for all concerned, even if we're in the rivets!) Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Pull into oncoming lane or tangle bars and go down? Given these choices only which would you choose? Comes across as though you're ramping this debate up a bit Dick. Is that your intention?No not at all, but I am tired of all this moaning about this and that, if you are half wheeling it is way easy to back off and fall in line. This is not just a Roadie and MTB in the bunch issue. It is a typical issue of people that are hangers-on and now want to shout the odds when things get hairy. There are too many people in the sharp end of the bunches that don't belong there. Just look back at the k@k that was caused by the PPA hill climbs to get your seeding up.I have been responding to the thread as I am going though it and I feel that a balanced view is also needed, even if my view seems unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share If you are at the sharp end of the bunches there is no excuse. You need to get the skills, you seem to know what is needed so ..... This is the exact scenario that's being debated. Super strong MTB riders who are getting seeded in front groups and don't know how to do the group dynamics... Expecting people to simply have the skills because they are seeded in the front is pie in the sky! Besides less emphasis on the hold the line chirp and people paying attention to what is going on with the wheels in front of them, how else do you think these group virgins can up their game? Consider that they're likely to continue training solo and only do events... Edited November 30, 2015 by Tubehunter Patchelicious and raptor-22 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Dude, if you switch a whole group of chaps, you better be ready for more than a polite request to ride properly holding your line. Bunch riding is all about trying to anticipate what is going on around you and be cohesive. We've already accepted the fact that the majority of racing events show up poor bunch riding skills, so there will be half wheelers amongst many groups. Clearly from your posts you intend racing for position 99 and you're prepared to take a batch of people down who should rather be home sleeping than looking to ride their best time for an event with a group of similar strength racers as enjoyably as they can! If getting all aggro is your idea of race face, that's your jollies. The majority of us pay money to ride these events because we enjoy the vibe of pushing ourselves to our limits and still try to make it a fun day out! In the racing bunches I have never had an issue, it is a moving living thing and everyone just adapts, there is no aggro, no shouting hold your line etc. You just do what is needed and it works. It is in the alphabet soup that it suddenly seems to be an issue. So no I will never get it, yes I am now a pleb as i have been off the bike and I am k@k sleg, but it still does not mean I need to suddenly become a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 30, 2015 Share This is my pet peev. If I am in front of you, no matter what I am riding, It is my line that counts not yours. you have brakes use them. When last were you in a racing bunch and you got squeezed into the gutter? It is a fact of life. If you are behind me and are half wheeling me so be it, you need to sleep at home and not on the road. Anyone behind me that dares to shout hold your line will get an earful and if I am on the rivets may get switched, just because I can!Hey dude, stop being a dick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share No not at all, but I am tired of all this moaning about this and that, if you are half wheeling it is way easy to back off and fall in line. This is not just a Roadie and MTB in the bunch issue. It is a typical issue of people that are hangers-on and now want to shout the odds when things get hairy. There are too many people in the sharp end of the bunches that don't belong there. Just look back at the k@k that was caused by the PPA hill climbs to get your seeding up.I have been responding to the thread as I am going though it and I feel that a balanced view is also needed, even if my view seems unbalanced. I'm with you on the moaning! Far too much of that! Yes, too many people who should not be in the sharp end! Agreed!!! Climbing a hill fast does not make you a strong group rider at 38km\h ave plus over a 100 click course! So what's the creative option to deal with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Dick sounds like a dick actually. Sounds a little too brave to have ever gone down in a bunch. Anyone who thinks they can "switch " without consequences is living in a fantasy world or got lucky at lottoNo worries it has been said before, but I am raising a view that needs to be raised. So i do. I have no issue with what you think of me. BUT think about all my comments properly and there my be value. If not, Cool, Dick I am (hence my profile name) I can deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 30, 2015 Share My road bike rocks 780mm bar's. ........guess I am not welcome then Pikey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share In the racing bunches I have never had an issue, it is a moving living thing and everyone just adapts, there is no aggro, no shouting hold your line etc. You just do what is needed and it works. It is in the alphabet soup that it suddenly seems to be an issue. So no I will never get it, yes I am now a pleb as i have been off the bike and I am k@k sleg, but it still does not mean I need to suddenly become a moron. Yes, I've also had a few years lay off from fast racing and busy coming back through the seeding maelstrom, so relate. But the growth of the mountain bike fraternity certainly has been obvious to me at road events now, coming back through the groups! There are some seriously strong riders who have no bunch racing skills at all and sadly no inclination to adapt and become cohesive with the bunch during the course of the race... (Which is what you would imagine happening!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share My road bike rocks 780mm bar's. ........guess I am not welcome then It's what you do with those bars more than the width of them that's really the issue Hairy. Lets keep it real ekse.... Hairy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeonabike Posted November 30, 2015 Share My road bike rocks 780mm bar's. ........guess I am not welcome thenYou need to commit fully.....Bring your camelbak......roadies looove those A saddle bag full of irratating jiggling bombsAny helmet as long as it has a massive visorSuuupa hairy legs I'm joking here (Before I get slayed) Edited November 30, 2015 by blondeonabike Edition 507, raptor-22 and Marius 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share You need to commit fully.....Bring your camelbak......roadies looove those A saddle bag full of irratating jiggling bombsAny helmet as long as it has a massive visorSuuupa hairy legsStand up comedy on a Monday Boab?? If we're rocking the above list, don't forget a fishnet vest and judron rugby shorts over aerobics leggings.... Preferably stuff that lets everyone else know you're colour blind! Maybe flat pedals and high top takkies too. (Can't remember that brand that everyone rocked back in the 80s now...) Edit: Gypsy's! Remembered.... Edited November 30, 2015 by Tubehunter blondeonabike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted November 30, 2015 Share Ever ridden a off road motor bike from Durban to Joburg? I have. Also did that trio many times on a road bike. Guess which was more comfortable and pleasant.Did literally thousands and thousands of km on a Canondale M400. That's me with the bike in my avatar. Does that count as having followed your instructions to ride a rigid hardtail? Oh and my current mtb is a hardtail.Now if you are up for some maths count the number of hand positions available to you on a mtb bike. One position I am guessing. Now do the same for a road bike. I count 5 and that gives two different back angles with it. Like I say. I have done both. Most people claiming mtb to be more comfortable than road bikes have done no real time on a road bike.Of course if you have done many hours on both types of bikes you may still feel that mtb is more comfortable on the road. Different strokes and all that.Apologies as per instruction..left out the i ...fixedRoadbikes for me used to give me the same back ache as a superbike..especially when raced on the track. Had trouble walking for a day or so after a wkds racing. I get the hands thing and had never thought of that perspective. Wish it was different but road bikes give crippling back ache. Not to say after a long mountain bike ride I don't suffer. Edited November 30, 2015 by Pikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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