MTB's in Road Races - Safety concern?

[Guest notmyname]

My road bike rocks 780mm bar's. ........guess I am not welcome then

And the pics?

[raptor-22]

No worries it has been said before, but I am raising a view that needs to be raised. So i do. 

 

I have no issue with what you think of me. BUT think about all my comments properly and there my be value. If not, Cool, Dick I am (hence my profile name) I can deal with it.

 

To be honest the only thing you're advocating is "shut up " and aggression.

 

If being told to hold your line then you're probably doing something erratic that doesn't fall in line with expected behaviour which if you are a true bunch rider, will understand since it comes with experience racing in bunches at that level.

It lacking in the bunches further down the field. Strangely enough those bunches are not short on aggression. Much of if manifesting itself in the manner you describe as acceptable.

Now apply that aggression to a dikwiel with moerse wide bars and very effective brakes to make a switch look innocent and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

So what is the point you want to carry across? Shut up and don't discuss potential issues?

Or just do it dicks way?

 

Help us understand

[arendoog]

We had a former pro on his mtb during the DC in our group .The wider bars can be concerning when you don,t expect them to be there in that space at the time ,but you need to be aware of that anyway .My ultimate annoyance are the riding partners that feel because they are wearing the same shirt sponsered by their favorite pornsite ,they have to ride abreast and chat about their epic preparation or lack thereof and not ride out of their partners shadow for a second 

Road bike or bunch crashes come only from LACK OF CONCENTRATION at the time .At the DC most of the crashes were on the of road turning away from Robertson with the wind at our backs ,sun on our shoulders ,chatting and a lot of easing of on the concentration from the previous 2 hours of riding into the wind 

[jamiecanter]

 

Guess I captured some key evidence from Sundays race...     

Hope you and the bike are alright and recover well.

 

Otherwise I have no problem with Roadies MTB's in the bunch as long as they hold their line and know their limits when it comes to handlebars and gaps. It is a "fun" ride after all.

[Tubehunter]

Almost don't notice him off on the left there.... (@14 seconds you'll see he probably drops a chain changing down under full load and ends up unweighted and falling into his bars before going down...)

[Hairy]

And the pics?

we got distracted on the way home by stopping for a swim in the ocean....was a hot day in ct and on the bike so you can blame us

[Mopkop]

The guy falls all by his lonesome.

 

I think what Dicks trying to say it that it doesnt matter whether youre riding 440mm or 780mm, As jy die pyp kan rook then youre more than welcome to sit. Riding like a chop is not limited/determined by your handlebar width but rather the lack of skill and respect for your fellow road users.

 

Heres a chap from our area that did a sub 3 on sunday on his 29er. He also races with it on killarney and he can totally hold his own

 

"Hold your line"  What line is that? there is no race that has got lines painted across the route with each rider choosing to stay within/on said line. Why should I indicate to you when I am going to sip from my bottle? Im not expecting you to indicate that to me. As jy wil drink dan drink jy mos.

 

Also pointing out/indicating that you want to come into the gap thats infront of me, you dont have to take your hand off the bar, point into the gap and then ask me. I can see that theres a gap and that youre slowly moving into it, TAKE IT! Its my responsibility to be fully aware of whats going on infront and to the sides of me.

 

I cannot be held responsible for whats going on behind me as I do not have a rear view mirror and I do not have eyes behind my head but that also does not mean that I am going to go ape shitt and start switching people.

 

Go to Killarney if you feel inadequate and get nervous about those around you.

 

Ill say it again, it boils down to skill level and respect, never mind fitness.

 

Like the saying goes, you want to bark like a big dog yet you still piss like a puppy. Im sure that dogs bark doesnt care about your handle bar width.

[Nats mtb]

Mountain bikers in a road races ? Come on guys... A friend and I (both Mtb ladies) did 94.7, starting in around k batch. I was on my road bike and my friend on her mountain bike.

 

Half way down the m1 with the two of us having a big chat, setting a great pace and working together as we would on any Mtb race. We heard a noise and both of us looked around and realised that we were towing around 20 cyclists. No notice, no signal and not a word from any of them to warn us they were there!

 

This happened multiple times in the race until we realised that we should consider this a compliment. These guys really had no issues being on our wheels. On every hill we overtook loads of people especially in the last half of the race, even pulled more up the hills.

 

So the question is why all the moaning if you are happy to sit behind us and not work as hard ?

 

I certainly would stick on any mountain bikers wheel knowing they have conquered some of south Africa's most awesome and tricky descents and rough terrain.

 

Would I voluntary ride in the middle of a bunch as a mountain biker - no ways, but that is my personal preference.

 

But the opposite seems to apply as with our experience on 94.7 this year !

[ChunkyMonkey]

Mr stirrer, you didn't know you could get & "maintain" a good road seeding from your mtb event results? Same principal apply to the black magic dirt roadies with zero technical skills use to get good mtb seedings... (luckilly mtb'ers never complain about them)

 

Those mtb'ers sure as hell don't maintain those seedings with how they perform in road races 

Mmmmmm....thank you for raising that point...

Actually that's exactly how I maintain my road seeding...Mtb only..

I don't own slicks, they make me feel like a roadie. We don't like that.Now do we?

I only ride road on recovery days. You know,Like the days you go V-cycle?

If you have the time...

At your next race, please join me, if you can finish with me ..

you will have an A-seeding,

I will even sign your saddle..

 

[Tubehunter]

The guy falls all by his lonesome.

 

I think what Dicks trying to say it that it doesnt matter whether youre riding 440mm or 780mm, As jy die pyp kan rook then youre more than welcome to sit. Riding like a chop is not limited/determined by your handlebar width but rather the lack of skill and respect for your fellow road users.

 

Heres a chap from our area that did a sub 3 on sunday on his 29er. He also races with it on killarney and he can totally hold his own

 

"Hold your line"  What line is that? there is no race that has got lines painted across the route with each rider choosing to stay within/on said line. Why should I indicate to you when I am going to sip from my bottle? Im not expecting you to indicate that to me. As jy wil drink dan drink jy mos.

 

Also pointing out/indicating that you want to come into the gap thats infront of me, you dont have to take your hand off the bar, point into the gap and then ask me. I can see that theres a gap and that youre slowly moving into it, TAKE IT! Its my responsibility to be fully aware of whats going on infront and to the sides of me.

 

I cannot be held responsible for whats going on behind me as I do not have a rear view mirror and I do not have eyes behind my head but that also does not mean that I am going to go ape shitt and start switching people.

 

Go to Killarney if you feel inadequate and get nervous about those around you.

 

Ill say it again, it boils down to skill level and respect, never mind fitness.

 

Like the saying goes, you want to bark like a big dog yet you still piss like a puppy. Im sure that dogs bark doesnt care about your handle bar width.

 

Struggling equally with your attempt at puffed up bravado and somehow making out that this will engender safety in group racing scenarios? 

 

Yes people who have been racing in groups and have experience will simply flow into the natural movements of the group as it gets around the course. Those who have not don't do this and then you end up with the suitcase brigade fighting for 5th wheel trying to hold on to the paceline and put 3 bikes where only 1 can go. As the group swallows up riders this area gets more congested. Add some inexperienced riders and you've got some seriously erratic riding waiting to grow into an accident!

 

Maybe you are not following the premise of this thread? It's aimed at the guy who clearly never rides in massive, tight, group situations unless he is attending a road race on his MTB, that does not seem to pick up group dynamics mid race... Suggestions for this type of rider?

[Dicky DQ]

Signal for space and speak to people when coming up behind them in an echelon so that they know we're there. (Trying to make it safe for all concerned, even if we're in the rivets!)

I have never understood the need to "Signal for space" if you want to come in you come in. Do not signal, just do it smoothly and move in. I will see what you are doing and respond in one of 2 ways:

1. Tap you on you but and push you out if I feel you are going to create a gap that I may have to close or,

2. Give you the space to move in, it is that simple. 

 

But that said, in the alphabet soup everyone wants to hang on at all cost so that is possibly the issue. If this is the case then deal with it don't moan about it. 

 

Life is simple.

[Tubehunter]

Mountain bikers in a road races ? Come on guys... A friend and I (both Mtb ladies) did 94.7, starting in around k batch. I was on my road bike and my friend on her mountain bike.

 

Half way down the m1 with the two of us having a big chat, setting a great pace and working together as we would on any Mtb race. We heard a noise and both of us looked around and realised that we were towing around 20 cyclists. No notice, no signal and not a word from any of them to warn us they were there!

 

This happened multiple times in the race until we realised that we should consider this a compliment. These guys really had no issues being on our wheels. On every hill we overtook loads of people especially in the last half of the race, even pulled more up the hills.

 

So the question is why all the moaning if you are happy to sit behind us and not work as hard ?

 

I certainly would stick on any mountain bikers wheel knowing they have conquered some of south Africa's most awesome and tricky descents and rough terrain.

 

Would I voluntary ride in the middle of a bunch as a mountain biker - no ways, but that is my personal preference.

 

But the opposite seems to apply as with our experience on 94.7 this year !

 

Lekka story Nats!

 

Sounds like you had a bunch of wheel suckers, checking out your tails and using that for inspiration to get around the course! 

 

We're exploring the affect of tight racing where you get into a rolling turn situation with a large group of riders at the front of a fast moving low seeded peloton and how the group dynamics are affected by people who are not familiar with maintaining this, how to position themselves if they don't intend getting involved as they're riding on the limit where they are just surviving and general etiquette or the lack thereof! 

 

Bunch riding skills certainly seems to be a dying art!

[Mopkop]

Struggling equally with your attempt at puffed up bravado and somehow making out that this will engender safety in group racing scenarios? 

 

Yes people who have been racing in groups and have experience will simply flow into the natural movements of the group as it gets around the course. Those who have not don't do this and then you end up with the suitcase brigade fighting for 5th wheel trying to hold on to the paceline and put 3 bikes where only 1 can go. As the group swallows up riders this area gets more congested. Add some inexperienced riders and you've got some seriously erratic riding waiting to grow into an accident!

 

Maybe you are not following the premise of this thread? It's aimed at the guy who clearly never rides in massive, tight, group situations unless he is attending a road race on his MTB, that does not seem to pick up group dynamics mid race... Suggestions for this type of rider?

I suggest education. Non of us can tell a riders skill level just by looking at them. It is up to said rider to go and look for help before hand, attend killarney, join a club etc.

 

That to me is the only way. Maybe I read incorrectly yes, seems like it was purely based on an mtb rider skill level. But there are many more riders on road bikes that do not have the "correct" or "same" skill level as the rest of the bunch.

 

What do you suggest Tubehunter?

[Dicky DQ]

 

Guess I captured some key evidence from Sundays race...     

Hope you and the bike are alright and recover well.

 

Otherwise I have no problem with Roadies MTB's in the bunch as long as they hold their line and know their limits when it comes to handlebars and gaps. It is a "fun" ride after all.

I missed something here..... What was the problem, apart form where the numbers were placed on the shirts and the fact that there was no bunch riding.

[Dicky DQ]

To be honest the only thing you're advocating is "shut up " and aggression.

 

If being told to hold your line then you're probably doing something erratic that doesn't fall in line with expected behaviour which if you are a true bunch rider, will understand since it comes with experience racing in bunches at that level.

It lacking in the bunches further down the field. Strangely enough those bunches are not short on aggression. Much of if manifesting itself in the manner you describe as acceptable.

Now apply that aggression to a dikwiel with moerse wide bars and very effective brakes to make a switch look innocent and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

So what is the point you want to carry across? Shut up and don't discuss potential issues?

Or just do it dicks way?

 

Help us understand

Snip

"you're probably doing something erratic that doesn't fall in line with expected behaviour" Problem here is most funriders believe anyone moving in front of them is doing this, which is not always the case. Usually they are just on the rivets and are not thinking. That is not the person in front's problem, but the dude on the rivets.

 

I know this, as of late, I have been sucking the hind tit (being unfit et al.) and often times I would also like to be a box and shout at the dude in front of me, but I don't as I know the drill.

[Tubehunter]

I have never understood the need to "Signal for space" if you want to come in you come in. Do not signal, just do it smoothly and move in. I will see what you are doing and respond in one of 2 ways:

1. Tap you on you but and push you out if I feel you are going to create a gap that I may have to close or,

2. Give you the space to move in, it is that simple. 

 

But that said, in the alphabet soup everyone wants to hang on at all cost so that is possibly the issue. If this is the case then deal with it don't moan about it. 

 

Life is simple.

 

A quick point to the space you're looking to take up at the back of a functional paceline cause you don't want to drop back behind the wheelsucker section after doing your pull at the front is often the only way to avoid going completely backwards in a group! Not that many switched on riders out there that know how to control the bubble behind a working paceline or rolling turn effort these days...

 

Again too many guys trying to take up too little real estate making for some very interesting situations out on the road! 

 

We probably would not race well together. I jabber along most of the time shouting out warnings about what's coming up ahead and to chaps in my immediate space about where and what I'm doing.