Chris Froome's numbers released

[nochain]

It also implies that Sky knew of his potential yet were 3 weeks away from letting him go. Yet Brailsford claims he had never seen test results or checked riders weight. Call me a what you like but it doesn't add up from a team that prides themselves on the finer details. 

I don't think Brailsford will ever not know the numbers of he's riders. That's what makes them good. They focus on those things but also know that numbers alone will not cut it. No use holding on to a rider year after year just based on numbers.

They had the same thing with John Lee...big engine,big potential!!

Brailsford did the math after seeing Froome in the TT...young, unsupported rider with below par equipment that goes fast can only mean 1 thing....big potential!

[jimmycool]

So much speculaution..

 

Ok so lets speculate, here is a straight forward question.

 

Are you more suspicious of Froome over Contador, Quintana, Aru, Valverde and Nibali? If you had to rank them in order of suspicion, how would that list look?

Nibali, Nibali, Nibali, Nibali and then Nibali.

[AdrianDJ]

I have mentioned it before but it's interesting that people don't see this as an factor how long it took for him to get to the top.

 

The biggest factor to winning is confidence and a believe in ones ability to compete with the top guy's. 

The engine is important yes but it is not by no means the only factor in pro cycling.

He's power data from 2007 is in line with what many people have said about him..out on the road the riders know a big engine when they see it and there are loads of people that have said he was strong like hell back then!

 

The problem Chris had is he did not deal with bunch riding in Europe as well as other riders that raced in that system all off their life. In fact most say he was just completely useless on the bike from a skills perspective.

The biggest engine in the world will not help a no name dodgy bike handler in a bunch full of big name riders and monster budget teams. He would not have seen the front of the bunch at all!!Positioning is everything for riders that want results!

 

The only reason he was signed with Sky in the first place was he's numbers, think about it.....why would the biggest team in the world sign a no-name riders with 0 results to speak off.

 

But he struggled like hell for consistency due to he's illness and not being able to stay at the front.

Long story short when he final got he's legs right he got a shot at riding for Wiggens at the Vuelta and that was the big change. He was "allowed" to ride at the front because he was working for the leader of one of the biggest teams in the world. He got to the climbs at the front with fresh legs and could do some damage for the first time in he's racing career.

That gave him a "name" and confidence...the 2 things that was missing.

 

Lastly everybody also knows that he showed he's ability at the TT years ago and that was the way he was spotted by the big teams.TT is simple...power and position and good equipment and you get results. Road racing in Europe is everything but simple....

 

Bottom line is it is clear the engine was always there, but people seem to think that is all it takes to succeed.Not by a long shot..

he's = he is. 

[Patchelicious]

I don't trust the 2007 numbers  

Cool, this is at least something we can work with.

 

Do you not trust them due the people who conducted it?

Do you not trust them due to the fact that performance(numbers) at the time did not match results?

 

I could type out a few more, but its probably better to just ask why you dont trust them?

[tombeej]

Just a little bit of insight about the effects of Bilharzia on an athlete....

 

My lighty is a top young canoest. In past years he has won his age group in some of the big local river races in SA, has been part of the shortlisted training group for Rio 2016 (sprints), and most recent result was 4th overall at the international Dragon Race (surfski) in Hong Kong a few weeks ago. He trains daily with the top names in SA canoeing, and has Lee McGregor (Hank's dad) as his mentor. Lee constantly tells him he's the future of SA canoeing and has invested a lot of time in the kid.

 

BUT....

 

For some reason in the past few years he never performed in the big races. On his good days in training he'd be able to pull the bunch along Blue Lagoon on long pulls at 15 - 16km/h without much problem. In the Thursday night club dice he'd break away and be out front on his own, leaving the bunch behind.

 

But come KZN or SA Champs he falls off the back of the bunch while they're still shadow boxing at 13 - 14 km/h early in the race. More than once I'd be standing on the bank at yet another major event with him pulled to the side mid-race, sitting in his boat holding onto the side with head hanging, trying to catch his breath, absolutely embarrassed and confused.

 

His mates, his coach, and his family couldn't understand. What was the problem?

 

He was eventually diagnosed with Bilharzia. Suddenly it all made sense. The way it was explained to us, the parasites literally eat your red blood cells. Now we all know the absolutely critical importance of your blood O2 carrying capacity, your haemocrit count, etc., when it comes to endurance sports. Imagine what millions of little worms are doing to your 'engine' while they feast on your red blood cells.

 

Not to mention what it does to your general energy levels, chronic fatigue, depression, and your general state of mind. You need a superior iron will just to keep going and not give up your chosen sport, especially when you don't know what is wrong.

 

The treatment is not great either. He had to go on a course of Biltricide every few months to kill the parastites. A whole wack of side effects there. More generalised chronic fatigue, difficulty just getting out of bed in the morning, etc. This has to happen every few months to try and kill off the new blooms of the parasite in the blood. He's still not 100%. I will never say it to him directly, but my own private view is that he'll sadly never get to realise his potential. The Bilharzia has made sure of that.

 

Anyway, that's just my familys experience with Bilharzia. Use it, don't use it.

 

Hopefully this might give you some insight into why Chris didn't truely realise his massive engine until later in life. In fact, from my experience, just making it onto a domestic pro team while suffering from Bilharzia would have been an achievement in itself.

[jcza]

I don't think Brailsford will ever not know the numbers of he's riders. That's what makes them good. They focus on those things but also know that numbers alone will not cut it. No use holding on to a rider year after year just based on numbers.

They had the same thing with John Lee...big engine,big potential!!

Brailsford did the math after seeing Froome in the TT...young, unsupported rider with below par equipment that goes fast can only mean 1 thing....big potential!

 

Where are these superb TT results you speak of? All I remember pre 2011 is 5th at Commonwealth games. 

 

What we do know is that Dr. Leinders weighed the riders every day.

 

Do some more reading and you'll know that Sky rides according to the numbers. Wiggo won the Tour that way.  

[jcza]

Cool, this is at least something we can work with.

 

Do you not trust them due the people who conducted it?

Do you not trust them due to the fact that performance(numbers) at the time did not match results?

 

I could type out a few more, but its probably better to just ask why you dont trust them?

 

The UCI test report that could validate all the wild rumours and speculation went missing from 2007 till now, when Michelle decided to go and find it. The copy looks dodgy to me. Has anyone seen the original? 

[nochain]

Where are these superb TT results you speak of? All I remember pre 2011 is 5th at Commonwealth games. 

 

What we do know is that Dr. Leinders weighed the riders every day.

 

Do some more reading and you'll know that Sky rides according to the numbers. Wiggo won the Tour that way.  

2006 world championship..they did the math on his result after the time he lost during the crash and it showed big potential. That and then confirming it with the commonwealth result. Again on bad equipment as an unknown rider that would have had very little top level training and support.

That's why I said I don't think they will not have known what power he can produce...because they are all about the numbers. As far as I know all of their riders get tested as part of recruitment.

 

Another indication of his power back then would be that the UCI academy don't just take in any rider to help develop.

[nochain]

Just a little bit of insight about the effects of Bilharzia on an athlete....

 

My lighty is a top young canoest. In past years he has won his age group in some of the big local river races in SA, has been part of the shortlisted training group for Rio 2016 (sprints), and most recent result was 4th overall at the international Dragon Race (surfski) in Hong Kong a few weeks ago. He trains daily with the top names in SA canoeing, and has Lee McGregor (Hank's dad) as his mentor. Lee constantly tells him he's the future of SA canoeing and has invested a lot of time in the kid.

 

BUT....

 

For some reason in the past few years he never performed in the big races. On his good days in training he'd be able to pull the bunch along Blue Lagoon on long pulls at 15 - 16km/h without much problem. In the Thursday night club dice he'd break away and be out front on his own, leaving the bunch behind.

 

But come KZN or SA Champs he falls off the back of the bunch while they're still shadow boxing at 13 - 14 km/h early in the race. More than once I'd be standing on the bank at yet another major event with him pulled to the side mid-race, sitting in his boat holding onto the side with head hanging, trying to catch his breath, absolutely embarrassed and confused.

 

His mates, his coach, and his family couldn't understand. What was the problem?

 

He was eventually diagnosed with Bilharzia. Suddenly it all made sense. The way it was explained to us, the parasites literally eat your red blood cells. Now we all know the absolutely critical importance of your blood O2 carrying capacity, your haemocrit count, etc., when it comes to endurance sports. Imagine what millions of little worms are doing to your 'engine' while they feast on your red blood cells.

 

Not to mention what it does to your general energy levels, chronic fatigue, depression, and your general state of mind. You need a superior iron will just to keep going and not give up your chosen sport, especially when you don't know what is wrong.

 

The treatment is not great either. He had to go on a course of Biltricide every few months to kill the parastites. A whole wack of side effects there. More generalised chronic fatigue, difficulty just getting out of bed in the morning, etc. This has to happen every few months to try and kill off the new blooms of the parasite in the blood. He's still not 100%. I will never say it to him directly, but my own private view is that he'll sadly never get to realise his potential. The Bilharzia has made sure of that.

 

Anyway, that's just my familys experience with Bilharzia. Use it, don't use it.

 

Hopefully this might give you some insight into why Chris didn't truely realise his massive engine until later in life. In fact, from my experience, just making it onto a domestic pro team while suffering from Bilharzia would have been an achievement in itself.

So if he is not lying about his Bilharzia also then this alone should be sufficient for people to understand the fast improvement he showed.

Add to that confidence and "room" to move in the peloton and you have a winner!!

[jcza]

2006 world championship..they did the math on his result after the time he lost during the crash and it showed big potential. That and then confirming it with the commonwealth result. Again on bad equipment as an unknown rider that would have had very little top level training and support.

That's why I said I don't think they will not have known what power he can produce...because they are all about the numbers. As far as I know all of their riders get tested as part of recruitment.

 

Another indication of his power back then would be that the UCI academy don't just take in any rider to help develop.

 

Wasn't he U23 in 2006? 

I'm lost - they will not have know what power he can produce....but they are all about the numbers? 

['Dale]

Can someone explain how its possible to ride @ 400w Hr 158 then do a massive 1000w attack and Hr only move to 162?

Look at your stem very intensely and spread your elbows as wide as possible while windmilling at 125 revs per minute

[nochain]

Wasn't he U23 in 2006? 

I'm lost - they will not have know what power he can produce....but they are all about the numbers? 

Yes he was U23.

 

You said that Brailfords claims to have not seen any test results. I then said I don't think that he will not know the numbers because that is completely against the way they do things.

So if he claims that he did not see any results of tests on riders I don't know how he could say something like that...makes no sense.

[Stricker]

TOPIC says :

 

Froomes Numbers , nothing about Astana , nothing About Lance anyone else but Froom, so when reading a topic that states Froomes Data and you see all stuff concerning Froom ,why would you complain that we are not talking about Astana? This topic is clearly dedicated to Frooms Data.

 

Im sure we start a new topic for Astana if you wana talk about them , don't you think  

 

Ok back to HR, im not accusing gents just asking the questions.

 

So we saying that because of fatigue his HR is lower than what it would be, meaning his performance is not as good as can be?

 

So in this fatigued state he produced the fastest time up ventoux "clean" even challenging the times set by previous winners that was "dirty" ,

So in a nut shell a clean Froom that is fatigued is just as strong/fast as a doped Lance and others?

 

 

Numbers as revealed means nothing by itself as ,Contidors/Quintana and others have had the best of Froom on numerous occasions, meaning they produce similar power and they are all in that ball park, the problem comes in when you open a 60sec( as he did this year) on Quintana on a single climb, Or like he did up ventoux dropping everyone.

 

If he was stronger then everyone else "superhuman" as per ventoux climb ( faster then doped guys) then he should be able to run away from components at free will.

 

BTW Have nothing against Froom and believe he is clean, but a lot of smoke normally= Fire

 

  

 

  

 

[jcza]

Yes he was U23.

 

You said that Brailfords claims to have not seen any test results. I then said I don't think that he will not know the numbers because that is completely against the way they do things.

So if he claims that he did not see any results of tests on riders I don't know how he could say something like that...makes no sense.

 

That was my point, makes no sense. In fact Brailsford claimed at the 2013 TdF that Froome had never done a V02Max test. (if only he knew he signed a thoroughbred) 

[jcza]

Saw a tweet from Dr. Jeroen Swart that 2007 data will be peer reviewed and presented instead of a dodgy copy provided by the wife. 

[nochain]

On the question if I believe Chris is clean...100% I believe he is riding clean!!

 

But remember EPO was banned as a drug during the 90ties, They just could not test for it.But it was on the banned list.

Do I believe Chris Froome is using Banned substances then the answer is NO.

He and many others could however be on something that is not banned right now that is completely legal but maybe in 2 or 3 years from now is seen as a banned substance.

 

Remember there was a time that caffeine was banned...does that mean all athletes that used caffeine before that time cheated? No they did not "cheat".