PietSw Posted February 15, 2016 Share We dont hate short riders. I was almost taken out 3 times by one because he was trying to stay with us no matter what. If the guys stayed in the group without causing near misses or at the back no problem. Its a more of a safety thing.Yeah, thats what I figured when I joined up with the vets. I thought to myself, I will just hang on at the back for as long as possible, I'm sure they wont expect me to take my turn at the front (not that I would have been able to get to the front.) But I would not want to be in such a group yet anyways, some serious Manne in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT4 Posted February 15, 2016 Share I enjoyed my race and improved on my time by 25mins or so........with regards to the slower/short distanced riders............as experienced guys in the big bunch, instead of shouting KEEP LEFT rather tell them to hold their line and rather US go around them and that should cause less issues. You panic an inexperienced guy by shouting LEFT etc if they keep their line their is less chance for accidents........my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PietSw Posted February 15, 2016 Share I personally don't have a problem with the short course riders.The long course riders would just prefer that you guys keep as far left as possible, look back if you are going to overtake a slower rider and hold your line. This is what the long course riders do all the time.I limped home with the 2nd half of VC. On the left we had short course riders riding in a bunch, but not one behind the other, all next to each other. We tried to pass with about 30 very tired riders, with cars passing on the RH side doing in excess of 100km/h.Then you get the guys who think it would be a good idea to join the bunch, but they seriously lack bunch riding skills, and are trying to ride/race in a vets group.We ate all out there enjoying(not so sure) our day out in the wind & sun, we just need to be aware that the speed differential can at times be large, and having to dodge slower riders, in a tight bunch will lead to tears.I have had bad days where I have needed to wheel suck a short course rider home, so not hating on you guys.I think its an education thing also, A lot of the short riders just want to be out there for a "fun" ride. So I guess they are not on forums like these (or belong to a club) where they can be made street smart.. I'm one of the guys that want to improve and get much faster, so I do my best to read up and watch videos on these things (Like GCN videos on Youtube). These videos even teach you some sneaky things on when to time your turn at the front, because on a climb the drafting benefit is less and you can control the pace ;-) But I guess thats what happens when you mix people with varying experience, ambitions and skills... Maybe the organizers should have a "list" of general rules on registration. Just pointers like - Stay Left (especially for the open and slower groups). They might not adhere to it but maybe it can just educate a few of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PietSw Posted February 15, 2016 Share I enjoyed my race and improved on my time by 25mins or so........with regards to the slower/short distanced riders............as experienced guys in the big bunch, instead of shouting KEEP LEFT rather tell them to hold their line and rather US go around them and that should cause less issues. You panic an inexperienced guy by shouting LEFT etc if they keep their line their is less chance for accidents........my 2 centsMake sense what you are saying because if you shout KEEP LEFT and this guy swerves left, wheels overlapping, it could cause some serious problems. And yes I guess the social/slower guys get really intimidated and nervous when a fast group comes past. So the, HOLD YOUR LINE, thing is a good Idea. Afterall, you guys are the more experienced riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_B Posted February 15, 2016 Share Rode in A. Went well until we got to the crosswind section. A bunch was strung out in a long straight line right on the edge of the right hand side of the road. Two riders went off the road and at that stage I decided it's not worth the risk. Tried to close the gap to the front by riding on my own into the wind. Caught them but sitting in the gutter caught me. Dropped a while later and we formed a small group that worked reasonably well together. VC leading group caught up with us with about 10-15km to go and for some reason they slowed down starting to play their cat and mouse games and every time we wanted to go past they would tell us to sit up which I have no problem with but then you must race and not slow down the pace, then we caught the leading ladies with about 3km to go so we had two licenced groups thats wants to sprint for the finish and we have the short distance riders in the mix which caused a huge problem at the end. Enjoyed the race. Was a good a challenging course. I was one of the riders bumped off the road going through the back of daleside? Managed to keep it up right and find a gap to hop back on the road without puncturing... After that I made sure to stay closer to the front and away from the right edge... Was completely unaware that 7 guys had broken away though until after the finish my mate told me about it. Explains why the pace became bit pedestrian through heidelburg with activize having two riders up the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaisikilist Posted February 15, 2016 Share Yeah, thats what I figured when I joined up with the vets. I thought to myself, I will just hang on at the back for as long as possible, I'm sure they wont expect me to take my turn at the front (not that I would have been able to get to the front.) But I would not want to be in such a group yet anyways, some serious Manne in there...As you seem to be interested in learning, let me teach you. You aren't allowed to "join up with the vets". when they come past, you are to allow them to pass without getting involved in their race, and you are to leave a gap between yourself and the back of the vets bunch that rolls through. You are not allowed to hang onto the back of them, or to position yourself in among them, and certainly not attempt to "take your turn at the front". They are in their own race, of 116km (in yesterday's case), and you are in your own race, of half that distance. By jumping onto the back of them, you are in fact cheating against your fellow competitors in the half race, by using the vets' pace to an unfair advantage, as well as becoming a hindrance to their race by being in the way. Don't take it personally as a "short rider". It's just rules.If (as i did yesterday) I get dropped in VA, and VB catches me, I have to do the same thing. I have to drop off the back of the VB bunch and am not allowed to get involved in their racing. Even if i'm also doing the full race distance like them. The commissaire told us to leave a gap when we held onto the back of them yesterday. Also, I see a lot of people commenting on how they "tried to hold onto the back of the tandems" at some point or another. Also not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBO Posted February 15, 2016 Share As you seem to be interested in learning, let me teach you. You aren't allowed to "join up with the vets". when they come past, you are to allow them to pass without getting involved in their race, and you are to leave a gap between yourself and the back of the vets bunch that rolls through. You are not allowed to hang onto the back of them, or to position yourself in among them, and certainly not attempt to "take your turn at the front". They are in their own race, of 116km (in yesterday's case), and you are in your own race, of half that distance. By jumping onto the back of them, you are in fact cheating against your fellow competitors in the half race, by using the vets' pace to an unfair advantage, as well as becoming a hindrance to their race by being in the way. Don't take it personally as a "short rider". It's just rules. If (as i did yesterday) I get dropped in VA, and VB catches me, I have to do the same thing. I have to drop off the back of the VB bunch and am not allowed to get involved in their racing. Even if i'm also doing the full race distance like them. The commissaire told us to leave a gap when we held onto the back of them yesterday. Also, I see a lot of people commenting on how they "tried to hold onto the back of the tandems" at some point or another. Also not allowed. Interesting. I wasn't aware of this. VC (I wasn't aware they started behind A) came past us and I tried to go with them a bit but couldn't. It was on an uphill and I was toast already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted February 15, 2016 Share As you seem to be interested in learning, let me teach you. You aren't allowed to "join up with the vets". when they come past, you are to allow them to pass without getting involved in their race, and you are to leave a gap between yourself and the back of the vets bunch that rolls through. You are not allowed to hang onto the back of them, or to position yourself in among them, and certainly not attempt to "take your turn at the front". They are in their own race, of 116km (in yesterday's case), and you are in your own race, of half that distance. By jumping onto the back of them, you are in fact cheating against your fellow competitors in the half race, by using the vets' pace to an unfair advantage, as well as becoming a hindrance to their race by being in the way. Don't take it personally as a "short rider". It's just rules.If (as i did yesterday) I get dropped in VA, and VB catches me, I have to do the same thing. I have to drop off the back of the VB bunch and am not allowed to get involved in their racing. Even if i'm also doing the full race distance like them. The commissaire told us to leave a gap when we held onto the back of them yesterday. Also, I see a lot of people commenting on how they "tried to hold onto the back of the tandems" at some point or another. Also not allowed. Amen brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr1 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Were you part of the leading VC group that sprinted for the finish? I was. Was quite chaotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 15, 2016 Share As you seem to be interested in learning, let me teach you. You aren't allowed to "join up with the vets". when they come past, you are to allow them to pass without getting involved in their race, and you are to leave a gap between yourself and the back of the vets bunch that rolls through. You are not allowed to hang onto the back of them, or to position yourself in among them, and certainly not attempt to "take your turn at the front". They are in their own race, of 116km (in yesterday's case), and you are in your own race, of half that distance. By jumping onto the back of them, you are in fact cheating against your fellow competitors in the half race, by using the vets' pace to an unfair advantage, as well as becoming a hindrance to their race by being in the way. Don't take it personally as a "short rider". It's just rules.If (as i did yesterday) I get dropped in VA, and VB catches me, I have to do the same thing. I have to drop off the back of the VB bunch and am not allowed to get involved in their racing. Even if i'm also doing the full race distance like them. The commissaire told us to leave a gap when we held onto the back of them yesterday. Also, I see a lot of people commenting on how they "tried to hold onto the back of the tandems" at some point or another. Also not allowed.I hope the tandems who caused massive disruption in the VA chase group read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa147GTA Posted February 15, 2016 Share I hope the tandems who caused massive disruption in the VA chase group read this.In fairness bud, that VA chase group was not really chasing. There was maybe 15 -20 people from VA and I reckon maybe 4-5 were doing all the work. In response to the shorter distance riders joining in our group. I reckon I was behind Zatek when the one rider actually just rode into him, it nearly caused a massive crash as we were right near the front. I went straight to the front and tried to push the pace up a little. I agree that you not suppose to ride amongst the different categories as they have there own race going on, but a lot can be said about rider etiquette and understanding. I rode a good few times in the A bunch and was always amazed at how people try take chances and the general group riding IMO was a little shaky. I have now ridden two races in VA and I honestly believe the group riding is so much more predictable and everyone seems to ride safer. Maybe I am wrong, but I feel a lot safer riding in VA than in any other bunch I have ridden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 15, 2016 Share In fairness bud, that VA chase group was not really chasing. There was maybe 15 -20 people from VA and I reckon maybe 4-5 were doing all the work. In response to the shorter distance riders joining in our group. I reckon I was behind Zatek when the one rider actually just rode into him, it nearly caused a massive crash as we were right near the front. I went straight to the front and tried to push the pace up a little. I agree that you not suppose to ride amongst the different categories as they have there own race going on, but a lot can be said about rider etiquette and understanding. I rode a good few times in the A bunch and was always amazed at how people try take chances and the general group riding IMO was a little shaky. I have now ridden two races in VA and I honestly believe the group riding is so much more predictable and everyone seems to ride safer. Maybe I am wrong, but I feel a lot safer riding in VA than in any other bunch I have ridden.Maybe you are talking about a different bunch, Zatek was not in chase group I am refering too. He was in the group chasing the chase group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PietSw Posted February 15, 2016 Share Okay, so the then the general rule is, I'm only allowed to ride against the group I started in. I'm not allowed to help a slower group rider improve his time(and they are definitely not allowed to use a rider with more experience to improve their times).. So basically just try and win your group for each race until you get into a group where its a level playing field or where everyone's ability is more or less the same. I'm guessing the seeding processes need to be refined a lot then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycotic Posted February 15, 2016 Share As you seem to be interested in learning, let me teach you. You aren't allowed to "join up with the vets". when they come past, you are to allow them to pass without getting involved in their race, and you are to leave a gap between yourself and the back of the vets bunch that rolls through. You are not allowed to hang onto the back of them, or to position yourself in among them, and certainly not attempt to "take your turn at the front". They are in their own race, of 116km (in yesterday's case), and you are in your own race, of half that distance. By jumping onto the back of them, you are in fact cheating against your fellow competitors in the half race, by using the vets' pace to an unfair advantage, as well as becoming a hindrance to their race by being in the way. Don't take it personally as a "short rider". It's just rules.If (as i did yesterday) I get dropped in VA, and VB catches me, I have to do the same thing. I have to drop off the back of the VB bunch and am not allowed to get involved in their racing. Even if i'm also doing the full race distance like them. The commissaire told us to leave a gap when we held onto the back of them yesterday. Also, I see a lot of people commenting on how they "tried to hold onto the back of the tandems" at some point or another. Also not allowed. Does the same apply to the open seeded groups? In other words, would a short rider be allowed to hook onto an open seeded long group? I know that the rules should (in theory) be better enforced in the racing groups, but I would imagine that a short rider would also gain an "unfair" advantage by using an open / seeded group to improve his/her time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa147GTA Posted February 15, 2016 Share Maybe you are talking about a different bunch, Zatek was not in chase group I am refering too. He was in the group chasing the chase group LOL. We were chasing the whole day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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