Fitting a longer shock to my enduro bike

[CdT85]

Good Morning Guys and Girls,

 

I am looking for some advice from the suspension guru's. My current enduro/general fun bike is a 2006 Mongoose Teocalli Super.

 

Current rear shock is a 190 x 50 Rockshox MC3.1. But she is not holding pressure. Now currently i am faced with three option, that is all going to cost about the same:

1) service the shock ( give it to Droo)

2) buy a secondhand MC3.1 ( off gumtree, still seem pristine)

3) buy a 200 x 57 Fox RP23  (listed in the classifieds)

 

I measured the frame, and it can handle a 200mm eye to eye shock. If I am correct, the 10mm extra eye to eye length will allow for the extra 7mm of travel. 

 

Other than changing my head angle slightly, what else must I keep in mind?

Current gear setup is 1x10 (Hope 32TNW with Shimano Deore 11-36 rear, SRAM X9 Type 2 derailieur)

Will this extra travel affect my chain lenght/chain growth? Or can I just disregard it?

 

Also, I am running a 140mm Marzocchi Drop off in front with no lock out. Will it be worth my while to replace the rear shock with a shock with lockout (Fox RP23)?

 

Looking forward to your comments below

[Skinnyone]

Just get your existing shock serviced, if its not holding air then it's a simple air chamber service and a seal kit (I haven't done one of these in a while so pricing may be out) but I can't see you picking up a decent shock for less than R1000, and if the replacement shock is less than that - ask yourself why its so cheap...

 

Fitting the longer shock will have a huge effect on the suspension system. Remember that even though it may be longer it may have a shorter stroke - the amount that it can travel and this will end in tears if it is the case as you'll bottom out the whole time. The valve damping may be completely different as well so you may come into a scenario where you cannot get enough rebound damping dialed in because the Fox unit has been tuned for a different frame and suspension system.

 

Lastly why worry about a lockout on a 140mm travel bike? The suspension is there for a reason - use it and enjoy it to it's fullest. You are not going to turn the bike into a "race machine" by locking out the suspension, in fact I can imagine what a long travel bike must feel like "locked out"....terrible...

[Eddy Gordo]

I agree. Rather service your existing shock. You do not know what the used one has or not have and you might end up in the same boat. Eventually you will have to service the used one as well.

 

Check the chain stay facing the rear tyre. There should be a sticker with the maximum size of shock the the frame can take.

[CdT85]

The quote on the service was about 1k, and both the RP23 and MC3.1 is also 1k.

Up until now I was not worried about the lockout on the bike as it is mostly used in the pointing down the hill position. Neither of my rides have rear lockout, just found peddling the Teocalli uphill with the sagging suspension is not as "effective". Cant seem to find that intermediate pressure to pedal up hill and bombing down after the climb, hence the idea of maybe fitting a lockout shock rear. Just might look a bit odd with lockout rear and old school marzocchi's up front. haha

 

The "cheap" price s not to much of a deterant as I picked up a basically brand new Monarch RT (for my trail bike) from another hubber a while back for 800 bucks as well. 

[CdT85]

I agree. Rather service your existing shock. You do not know what the used one has or not have and you might end up in the same boat. Eventually you will have to service the used one as well.

 

Check the chain stay facing the rear tyre. There should be a sticker with the maximum size of shock the the frame can take.

 

There was unfortunately no sticker there. And I stripped the bike to raw alu a while ago. seems the 2007 model and up used a 200x57 vs a 190x50 shock

[droo]

You're not going to find a seal kit for an Ario I'm afraid. If you plan to keep the bike, find yourself a Fox (RP23 or CTD, preferably Boostvalve) or Monarch RT3. Ideally get it serviced before you fit it, these things should be rebuilt every 100 - 150 hours of riding and it's highly unlikely that the last owner's had it done just before selling.

 

Regarding length - find one the same length. Adding an extra 10mm to the rear shock length is going to cause *** with the suspension kinematics, raise your BB and steepen your head angle. You don't want to go there.

 

As for the 'lockout' - there are very few shocks that actually lock out. The levers are for increased low speed compression damping which tunes out pedal bob. It really helps on the climbs, because it still allows the suspension to move. Anything with a full lockout, usually designated RL, is not great because other compromises have been made to allow the lockout. (The exception is Fox Float DPS, but I doubt a R 8k shock is on the cards for a 10 year old bike.)

[Skinnyone]

Yeah then like I said, just service your existing unit, like Eddy said you're going to have to service the "new" 2nd hand ones at some point anyway....

 

Edit: seeing Droo's response about service kits then yes look for an RP23 but like he says get the same size and stroke etc...like I said in my first post.

[DubbelBuys]

Like mentioned above: rather not tamper with a different length shock.

 

 

Not too sure how much travel those frames had, but the math works like this on (rear) shocks:

 

frame travel (in mm) ÷ shock stroke length.

This will give you the suspension's ratio.

 

Ie: 140mm ÷ 50mm stroke length = 2.8

 

Now if you fit a 57mm stroke shock you simply multiply the ratio (2.8) with the new stroke length.

 

2.8 x 57mm = 159.6mm travel.

 

 

Keep in mind the BB will rise quite a bit & the HA will steepen.

 

 

This type of shock changes work best when a shock with the same eye to eye length is used with more stroke length like fitting a 200mm x 57mm (stroke) where a 200mm x 50/51mm was fitted originally.

 

 

Rather keep the shock length as is.

[CdT85]

You're not going to find a seal kit for an Ario I'm afraid. If you plan to keep the bike, find yourself a Fox (RP23 or CTD, preferably Boostvalve) or Monarch RT3. Ideally get it serviced before you fit it, these things should be rebuilt every 100 - 150 hours of riding and it's highly unlikely that the last owner's had it done just before selling.

 

Regarding length - find one the same length. Adding an extra 10mm to the rear shock length is going to cause *** with the suspension kinematics, raise your BB and steepen your head angle. You don't want to go there.

 

As for the 'lockout' - there are very few shocks that actually lock out. The levers are for increased low speed compression damping which tunes out pedal bob. It really helps on the climbs, because it still allows the suspension to move. Anything with a full lockout, usually designated RL, is not great because other compromises have been made to allow the lockout. (The exception is Fox Float DPS, but I doubt a R 8k shock is on the cards for a 10 year old bike.)

 

Makes sense, did not think of the bb hight. And as you said, price of a shock for a 10 year old bike is also a mayor factor in my choice. 

So from what I understand, my MC3.1 is a write of due to availability of service kits?

[CdT85]

Like mentioned above: rather not tamper with a different length shock.

 

 

Not too sure how much travel those frames had, but the math works like this on (rear) shocks:

 

frame travel (in mm) ÷ shock stroke length.

This will give you the suspension's ratio.

 

Ie: 140mm ÷ 50mm stroke length = 2.8

 

Now if you fit a 57mm stroke shock you simply multiply the ratio (2.8) with the new stroke length.

 

2.8 x 57mm = 159.6mm travel.

 

 

Keep in mind the BB will rise quite a bit & the HA will steepen.

 

 

This type of shock changes work best when a shock with the same eye to eye length is used with more stroke length like fitting a 200mm x 57mm (stroke) where a 200mm x 50/51mm was fitted originally.

 

 

Rather keep the shock length as is.

 

Thanx for the explanation. That does make perfect sense 

[CdT85]

So after some better research from my side I came across the factory geometry for the teocali

 

So I set her up to measure the bb hight and wheel base with a 200mm eye to eye setup vs the 190mm eye to eye... (excuse the mess, sorting out my garage)

 

 

And with an eye to eye setup of 200mm the measurement align perfectly to the factory spec (Now I wonder why they fitted a 190 x 50 originally).

 

Any feedback from the suspension gurus if it will be a good or bad idea to go for a 200 x 50 shock keeping the measurements taken in mind?

[droo]

Some fairly brief googlage says that it came out with a 190 x 50 as standard, so my response stands.

[CdT85]

Some fairly brief googlage says that it came out with a 190 x 50 as standard, so my response stands.

 

Thanks Droo  Lined up a 190 x 50 (Rockshox ario 3.2), just not to good in the wallet at the moment. Tempted to buy dubbelbuys' xfusion (200x50, but way better priced) but want to make sure before I mess up my frame

 

Other option is a new Fox RP2 from chain reaction. Currently running  a special that will cost me a bit less than the secondhand Ario.

[popcorn_skollie]

Thanks Droo  Lined up a 190 x 50 (Rockshox ario 3.2), just not to good in the wallet at the moment. Tempted to buy dubbelbuys' xfusion (200x50, but way better priced) but want to make sure before I mess up my frame

 

Other option is a new Fox RP2 from chain reaction. Currently running  a special that will cost me a bit less than the secondhand Ario.

 

Now that that's sorted. Just how hard was it to get your frame that shiny?

I know that paint stripper does wonders but. My concern is all the manual labour involved in getting the polished finish. Any tips? I really want to do this for my old DH bike.

[droo]

Thanks Droo  Lined up a 190 x 50 (Rockshox ario 3.2), just not to good in the wallet at the moment. Tempted to buy dubbelbuys' xfusion (200x50, but way better priced) but want to make sure before I mess up my frame

 

Other option is a new Fox RP2 from chain reaction. Currently running  a special that will cost me a bit less than the secondhand Ario.

 

Don't get the Ario again. You can't service it. The RP2 is the one to go for if you don't want to be sitting with the same problem in a year or 2.

[CdT85]

Now that that's sorted. Just how hard was it to get your frame that shiny?

I know that paint stripper does wonders but. My concern is all the manual labour involved in getting the polished finish. Any tips? I really want to do this for my old DH bike.

 

Was lots of hours with green scrotchbrite, followed by microfiber cloths and car polish. looking back, I would use autosol next time. I spent about 6+ months building and prepping the bike, the frame taking up most of the time.

 

Only downfall, she needs constant buffing, the vinyl decals keep damaging and the alu shows every mark of anything touching it. contemplating powder coating her rather