Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:48 AM, Escapee.. said: *** so are we back to square one? Need to do be able to do same amount of attempts per segment per region to have a definitive answer?I think we are mostly clear that FTP at sea level will be higher......Mostly!
Pure Savage Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:50 AM, Kona Kula said: I think we are mostly clear that FTP at sea level will be higher......Mostly!Aren't most PPA members from WC, making it mostly fair...
Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:53 AM, Pure Savage said: Aren't most PPA members from WC, making it mostly fair...I think the seeding is mostly national due to 94.7 and other seeding races....Mostly. However going back to the original discussion, apart from a few outliers and based on very little data, the curve looks like a good prediction of which group you will ride in. The outliers might be caused by sitting in a bunch that is quick, not being in a bunch but strong, and a lack of racing so a degrading of seeding.
Fat Boab Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 2:07 PM, Patchelicious said: Yesterday while struggling to breath up a hill and looking at my Watts, I thought about this thread... and realised, that I have my own data. I regularly ride in both CPT and JHB, and chase segments in both areas. So I decided to look at my various PPOs based on location. I then decided to share, at the risk of being mocked, but thought somebody should start. Im not strong enough to worry anybody, so who gives a crap if you share power data. 30sec = 840w - JHB60sec = 691w - JHB2min = 496w - JHB3min = 470w - CPT5min = 419w - CPT10min = 345 - CPT20min = 336w - CPT These were all during races or chasing segments, so they are not true exact PPO targeted efforts. (e.g.: 60sec PPO was during 1m10 Strava segment) These were all done outside on Stages Power on the same bike, none of these numbers are from IDTs or Wattbikes. None of these were done on the same ride, and the CPT rides happened between the JHB ones, so it wasn't a factor of getting stronger for either. Spread over a 12 month period. So all I can deduce from my own stats is that being at sea level makes sustained power outputs easier. But short hard efforts doesn't make much difference. Obviously this is not conclusive, but clearly pushing power for longer is easier for ME at sea level. Note: I know that this isn't massively scientific, but at least I am putting some data (my own) behind my statement. This is not a water tight conclusion, just my observation. Yeah I'm also a bit confused about your comparative data as shown. I don't see any comparison data between CPT and JHB at the same time period??
Vetplant Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 Now I want to derail this discussion even futher: Should we also map your FTP value without dividing it by mass to your seeding?And while we are at it, Map your Mass to your seeding... Person A:FTP=285Mass=95W/kg=3 Person B:FTP=195Mass=65W/kg=3 To expect these two riders to perform the same at Emperors and at 947 is most likely going to be way off...
Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:59 AM, Fat Boab said: Yeah I'm also a bit confused about your comparative data as shown. I don't see any comparison data between CPT and JHB at the same time period??He is only showing the peak values
Pure Savage Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:58 AM, Kona Kula said: I think the seeding is mostly national due to 94.7 and other seeding races....Mostly. However going back to the original discussion, apart from a few outliers and based on very little data, the curve looks like a good prediction of which group you will ride in. The outliers might be caused by sitting in a bunch that is quick, not being in a bunch but strong, and a lack of racing so a degrading of seeding. Or if somehow your chip ends up in someone else's back pocket by mistake. Apparently in CT making sure your chip is on your person is rather tricky for some...
Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:00 AM, Rookie85 said: Now I want to derail this discussion even futher: Should we also map your FTP value without dividing it by mass to your seeding?And while we are at it, Map your Mass to your seeding... Person A:FTP=285Mass=95W/kg=3 Person B:FTP=195Mass=65W/kg=3 To expect these two riders to perform the same at Emperors and at 947 is most likely going to be way off...Well here is where the seeding system may break down. In Jhb the races are flat. Also they pull all the licensed riders out of A batch into their own cat. So in Cpt A is the elite batch, where in Jhb A is not. My seeding this weekend at 1tonner is 10.3 but at emperors in VA I got a 5.2. Even with the lower beta, the difference between my time and the winners was so close I scored on the seeding.
'Dale Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:53 AM, Pure Savage said: Aren't most PPA members from WC, making it mostly fair...HeheheHow your brain works Wicked ????????
Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:05 AM, Pure Savage said: Or if somehow your chip ends up in someone else's back pocket by mistake. Apparently in CT making sure your chip is on your person is rather tricky for some...Agree, but these must surely be a few. And as said before 1 hill and they out the back of the group. The first 20km in a race group is not for fun riders.
Fat Boab Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 6:58 AM, Kona Kula said: I think the seeding is mostly national due to 94.7 and other seeding races....Mostly. However going back to the original discussion, apart from a few outliers and based on very little data, the curve looks like a good prediction of which group you will ride in. The outliers might be caused by sitting in a bunch that is quick, not being in a bunch but strong, and a lack of racing so a degrading of seeding. Even with all its flaws, it's a pretty impressive trend. Bouquets to the OP and all who contributed data; brick-bats to the less open-minded.....
Fat Boab Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:01 AM, Kona Kula said: He is only showing the peak values (I'm not a power fundi...), so presumably the location of the max PPO and its value?
Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:16 AM, Fat Boab said: (I'm not a power fundi...), so presumably the location of the max PPO and its value?Yes
Stricker Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 5:32 PM, Patchelicious said: That could be an explanation. Was thinking about this now, while riding and I think the explanation in my case is even simpler. I live in JHB, and by sheer number of rides, I probably ride 5-6 times more in JHB than in CPT. Therefore on the shorter efforts, where altitude/oxygen doesn't come into play that much, maybe multiple repetitions/pure luck/effort/phycological will power could trump the lack of oxygen and physiological restrictions, but when the efforts start getting longer, there is no way of getting around it and the body simply cannot sustain the same effort as it starts taking strain.... well thats just another possible explanation.... maybeMakes Sense. If possible can you post you best vs best EXP30S JHB X VS 30S CT X would be interesting to see when the actual cross over happens.
Fat Boab Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 For those Twits......you could ask this lot for a considered view? https://twitter.com/Altitude_resch
Kona Kula Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:35 AM, Fat Boab said: For those Twits......you could ask this lot for a considered view? https://twitter.com/Altitude_reschNo, this threads lack of real studies is what makes it special.
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