Eldron Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 I have a completely non related question... I see guys calling Epic an XC race on repeat, I see trail centres and guys on here regard the smooth, easy trails as XC oriented trails YET... when someone is asked why they don't come to any of the XC races their reply is often 'It's too technical'... Throwing out the term XC to describe sedate trails and hundreds of KM of gravel road and headwinds is hardly accurate. As you were.. Back to debating bikes, budgets, wheel size and religion... For sure. Guys calling the Epic an XC race on repeat have obviously not ridden the Epic. Or XC. Maybe XC from 10 years ago but XC has gotten pretty hectic in the last 5 years!
Grease_Monkey Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 For sure. Guys calling the Epic an XC race on repeat have obviously not ridden the Epic. Or XC. Maybe XC from 10 years ago but XC has gotten pretty hectic in the last 5 years! Agreed, I have not ridden an Epic, but from what I have seen it's pretty darn technical. And XC, especially XCO has gotten more and more technical - I am hesitant to hit half of the features on my 150mm travel bike with grippy 2.4" tyres and seat post dropped all the way down, never mind doing it on a skinny tyre, low and flat handlebar and fixed seat post bike. I think most of the guys who say XC is such a joke will get their a$$ handed to them on tech stuff by the guys that actually race XC.
Eldron Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Agreed, I have not ridden an Epic, but from what I have seen it's pretty darn technical. And XC, especially XCO has gotten more and more technical - I am hesitant to hit half of the features on my 150mm travel bike with grippy 2.4" tyres and seat post dropped all the way down, never mind doing it on a skinny tyre, low and flat handlebar and fixed seat post bike. I think most of the guys who say XC is such a joke will get their a$$ handed to them on tech stuff by the guys that actually race XC. I think people get the wrong idea of the Epic because of the TV editing - nobody wants to see hours and hours of riders rolling along dirt roads so the producers concentrate on the fun stuff with just a few panoramic fly overs of riders in a peleton on open roads. I road every cm of my Epic. There wasn't a single section where I was even remotely concerned about the technicality. On a carbon hardtail :-) I am not the worlds most technical rider - I did a full year of the national XCO series but that was a few years ago - I'm *** scared of the courses I've seen in the last year or two! Joberg2c has WAY more fun technical stuff than the Epic does.
Edge_Design Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Agreed, I have not ridden an Epic, but from what I have seen it's pretty darn technical. And XC, especially XCO has gotten more and more technical - I am hesitant to hit half of the features on my 150mm travel bike with grippy 2.4" tyres and seat post dropped all the way down, never mind doing it on a skinny tyre, low and flat handlebar and fixed seat post bike. I think most of the guys who say XC is such a joke will get their a$$ handed to them on tech stuff by the guys that actually race XC. Who said XC is a joke? It's a great sport. How did XCO even get into this discussion? I can promise you the Epic really isn't that technical... It certainly isn't easy - no-one said it is - but it is no different to any normal XC/Marathon race in the area from a technical perspective. I 100% agree the top riders who ride 5 hours per day as their full time job are definitely better riders technically than most of us normal weekend warriors (I bet you I'm a better accountant than they are!) - I would have expected that went without saying but you obviously feel quite strongly about it (consider my a$$ handed to me - whatever that actually means).
Grease_Monkey Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Who said XC is a joke? It's a great sport. How did XCO even get into this discussion? I can promise you the Epic really isn't that technical... It certainly isn't easy - no-one said it is - but it is no different to any normal XC/Marathon race in the area from a technical perspective. I 100% agree the top riders who ride 5 hours per day as their full time job are definitely better riders technically than most of us normal weekend warriors (I bet you I'm a better accountant than they are!) - I would have expected that went without saying but you obviously feel quite strongly about it (consider my a$$ handed to me - whatever that actually means). I'm not aiming the remark at you or anyone in specific, so no need to get excited about things here I have just had a few discussions with guys in the last couple of months who are of the opinion that anything with "XC" in it, be that XC or XCO is a joke in terms of skills needed or technicality. I am just pointing out that I am not of the same opinion, although I am not an XC rider I acknowledge that putting on lycra and riding an XC bike does not mean that you have no technical skills - on the contrary lots of guys (pros and ameteurs alike) that ride XC are exceptionally skilled, and rides like the Epic and other stage races are not just dirt roads. And the guys I was speaking about handing their ass to them - not referring to pros here. I am referring to many XC riders (maybe you are one of them), that can out ride guys in baggies and 5.10 shoes on their enduro bikes when it comes to technical stuff. Didn't realise my comment would strike such a nerve Anyway... this is getting a bit off topic.
Eldron Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 I'm not aiming the remark at you or anyone in specific, so no need to get excited about things here I have just had a few discussions with guys in the last couple of months who are of the opinion that anything with "XC" in it, be that XC or XCO is a joke in terms of skills needed or technicality. I am just pointing out that I am not of the same opinion, although I am not an XC rider I acknowledge that putting on lycra and riding an XC bike does not mean that you have no technical skills - on the contrary lots of guys (pros and ameteurs alike) that ride XC are exceptionally skilled, and rides like the Epic and other stage races are not just dirt roads. And the guys I was speaking about handing their ass to them - not referring to pros here. I am referring to many XC riders (maybe you are one of them), that can out ride guys in baggies and 5.10 shoes on their enduro bikes when it comes to technical stuff. Didn't realise my comment would strike such a nerve Anyway... this is getting a bit off topic. I think I see the issue....it's a nomenclature issue. There is no such thing as just XC. "XC" cover ALL mtb with the exception of DH, 4X and ENDuro. XCO is the stuff we see Nino doing. XCM is marathon stuff. The Epic is actually XCS There is a bunch of other XC(letter) but it is a little fringe... § 1 Race types 4.1.001 The mountain bike discipline includes the following events comprising the specialties listed below: A. Cross-country: XC (Chapter II cross-country events) Cross-country Olympic: XCO Cross-country marathon: XCM Cross-country point-to-point: XCP (point to point) Cross-country short circuit: XCC (Short Track) Cross-country eliminator: XCE Cross-country time trial: XCT (Time Trial) Cross-country team relay: XCR (Team Relay) Cross-country stage race: XCS (Stage races) B. Downhill: DH (downhill) (Chapter III downhill events) Downhill Individual: DHI Downhill Marathon: DHM C. Four Cross: 4X (Chapter IV four cross events) D. Enduro: END (Chapter IVa enduro events) (text modified on 1.10.13)
jcza Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Interesting debate Most of the top ladies on XCO world circuit still choose to ride HT while men prefer FSLast year majority of competitors at XCM world champs were on HT Personally I won't ride HT again after switching to FS. It more comfortable & faster. What more do you want?
Grease_Monkey Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 I think I see the issue....it's a nomenclature issue. There is no such thing as just XC. "XC" cover ALL mtb with the exception of DH, 4X and ENDuro. XCO is the stuff we see Nino doing. XCM is marathon stuff. The Epic is actually XCS There is a bunch of other XC(letter) but it is a little fringe... § 1 Race types 4.1.001 The mountain bike discipline includes the following events comprising the specialties listed below: A. Cross-country: XC (Chapter II cross-country events) Cross-country Olympic: XCO Cross-country marathon: XCM Cross-country point-to-point: XCP (point to point) Cross-country short circuit: XCC (Short Track) Cross-country eliminator: XCE Cross-country time trial: XCT (Time Trial) Cross-country team relay: XCR (Team Relay) Cross-country stage race: XCS (Stage races) B. Downhill: DH (downhill) (Chapter III downhill events) Downhill Individual: DHI Downhill Marathon: DHM C. Four Cross: 4X (Chapter IV four cross events) D. Enduro: END (Chapter IVa enduro events) (text modified on 1.10.13) I was aware of the XCO, and XCM abbreviations, but not XCS. I've always just referred to both single day and stage racing as XCM.... You learn something new everyday
Grease_Monkey Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Interesting debate Most of the top ladies on XCO world circuit still choose to ride HT while men prefer FSLast year majority of competitors at XCM world champs were on HT Personally I won't ride HT again after switching to FS. It more comfortable & faster. What more do you want? Very interesting to see what choices are made at the top end of the field, but I think ultimately things are moving in the general direction of a dual suspension bike used for most formats of mtb racing. I don't think it will ever be 100% dominated by dual suspension bikes. But for most of use mortals the dual suspension bikes will fit the bill with all our back problems, sore backends, etc etc. But... of course the cost of riding a hardtail is just soooo much cheaper! No pivots, minimal bearings, only one suspension component to service. I bought a steel hardtail for exactly this reason - to use as my go to bike to keep maintenance costs down on the dual suspension bike, however I just find myself reaching for the dual suspension bike 90% of the time. Guess I have become soft.
Eldron Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Interesting debate Most of the top ladies on XCO world circuit still choose to ride HT while men prefer FSLast year majority of competitors at XCM world champs were on HT Personally I won't ride HT again after switching to FS. It more comfortable & faster. What more do you want?Oom! I reckon XCM is ine of the few places where hardtails will be thw bike of choice (until course development happens - like it did in XCO). I didn't see 2017s XCM course but for years they've been pretty smooth going but with tons of climbing. I agree in principle though - duallie is my go to bike for almost all racing. I rode a dutch endurance race last year - pan flat with zero technical and I took my duallie. Looking back the hardtail would have been faster. That was the only race I did last year where I would have used a HT.
jcza Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Oom! I reckon XCM is ine of the few places where hardtails will be thw bike of choice (until course development happens - like it did in XCO). I didn't see 2017s XCM course but for years they've been pretty smooth going but with tons of climbing. I agree in principle though - duallie is my go to bike for almost all racing. I rode a dutch endurance race last year - pan flat with zero technical and I took my duallie. Looking back the hardtail would have been faster. That was the only race I did last year where I would have used a HT. The XCM world course was so smooth they were sitting in bunches. These days I prefer the CX bike for dirt roads. Fully agree with you FS is just better.
Eldron Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 The XCM world course was so smooth they were sitting in bunches. These days I prefer the CX bike for dirt roads. Fully agree with you FS is just better.I gotta get me another CX bike - bike paths here are perfect for one!
jcza Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 I gotta get me another CX bike - bike paths here are perfect for one! Great fun! Is there organised CX racing? With cold, mud and rain obviously. And maybe snow
Eldron Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Great fun! Is there organised CX racing? With cold, mud and rain obviously. And maybe snowFor sure but I aint doing it! If I had a factory ride sure but I hate the sounds of mud chewing up expensive kit. That and the 5 hours of cleaning boggy clothes/helmet/shoes/bike/car after a 1 hour race...
Martin PJ Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Suspension seatpost? This one has five cm of travel and does make a HT very comfy, so you have best of both. Also pretty cheap.
Jewbacca Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 For sure but I aint doing it! If I had a factory ride sure but I hate the sounds of mud chewing up expensive kit. That and the 5 hours of cleaning boggy clothes/helmet/shoes/bike/car after a 1 hour race...That's why SSCX was invented!
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