Carbon vs Titanium???

[RenierSteffen]

Thanks Mampara, ek het n tool gesien in die nuwe boek van Leonard Zinn, dit word deur morninstar vervaardig.

[Speedi]

Christie is right' date=' carbon is by far the best material for bicycle frame construction and the only drawback of carbon that I can think of is crash resistance. If a carbon frame falls on a sharp object such as a ledge, it turns to pulp, rendering the frame useless and non repairable.

 

 

Titanium would bend and survive that same fall. However, titanium is relatively heavy (half the weight [density'] of steel but, and this is where fashion over-rides common sense, twice as heavy as aluminium.

 

 

Although alu is not as strong (cycles to fatigue, yield strength and the like), it can be made into a very stiff and durable frame a la Cannondale.

 

 

Titanium is hard to work with (it gets harder as it is machined) and is prone to cracking at welds. It is more expensive to heat treat than aluminium and easier to get wrong. Titanium is purely a fashion material when it comes to bicycles and has no quality that makes it better than steel or aluminium in the metal bike category nor in the carbon fibre category.

 

 

It doesn't oxidise at room temperature so it remains shiny, unlike steel and alu. Most people won't be able to pick out titanium from similarly polished steel or alu, so unless the beholder knows it is ti, he/she won't see the beauty in what they're looking at.

 

 

Finally, I'm glad Christie mentioned that fact that steel (or the other bike metals) never get soft from age and use. They remain as stiff as they left the factory.

 

 

Unfortunately the cycling god Bernard Hinault doesn't know that. In the May edition of the revered Cycling Sport he says: "....whereas steel, composed of a more malleable arrangement of atoms [vs carbon], moves over time. We can sense it when we get a new bike at the start of the Tour. We have the sudden feeling of having a rigid bike, proof that the one we had before had lost is quality over the months...."

 

 

Even the gods spew rubbish and cycling magazines are just too eager to print it.

 

 

And finally, guys, please stay away from meaningless terms like "responsiveness." It has no root in bicycle science.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

 

Die laaste ou wat my "ge-oom" het is nou 'n tannie.

[Johan Bornman]

Hi Johan
Weet jy waar ek n tool kan kry om disc rotors te true?

 

Renier, ek sit sommer die hele wiel in my wheel truing stand en tap tap die fout uit met 'n ligte hamertjie. Jy kan dit ook in die fiets self doen.

 

Cape Cycle Systems verkoop so 'n Park Tools produk. Jou fietswinkel kan dit bestel.

 

Ek ken nie die pot en stoof manier nie.

 

 

[Speedi]

.Speedi152008-06-26 06:00:39

[Speedi]

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

 

 

Die laaste ou wat my "ge-oom" het is nou 'n tannie.

 

 

 

pls translate

[TNT1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

 

 

 

 

Carefull... although sage and respected, JB is not oom. There is only one "oom" here and that is the road builder...

 

[jabbathemutt007]

 

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

 

 

Die laaste ou wat my "ge-oom" het is nou 'n tannie.

 

 

 

pls translate

 

He specializes in testicle removal, ask Armstrong. The right tool to use is open to debate.

 

[Speedi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

 

 

 

Carefull... although sage and respected' date=' JB is not oom. There is only one "oom" here and that is the road builder...[/quote']

 

 

 

ok my apologies JB. . was just trying to show some respect

[Johan Bornman]

i think ill listen to oom johan. he knows whats best

Die laaste ou wat my "ge-oom" het is nou 'n tannie.

pls translate

 

The last guy who called me uncle is now an aunt.

[bruce]

And finally' date=' guys, please stay away from meaningless terms like "responsiveness." It has no root in bicycle science.

[/quote']

Yes, I much prefer power output over 5 second duration when talking about responsiveness

[jabbathemutt007]

 

And finally' date=' guys, please stay away from meaningless terms like "responsiveness." It has no root in bicycle science.

[/quote']

 

Yes, I much prefer power output over 5 second duration when talking about responsiveness

 

CP0.08

 

[fandacious]

 

I once picked up and kicked the tyres of a scandium/aluminium

 

Sorry JB - I meant Sc-Al. Pure Sc is very rare/expensive. I havent seen a Sc-Al frame, but KCNC do all their components in SC-AL. They're not outrageously expensive and are a bit lighter than their carbon counter parts.

 

Have you had any experience with these Sc-Al components? how would you rate them compared to plain old carbon fibre/titanium?

 

thanks

[TNT1]

 

 

 

CP0.08

Weirdo... It's 3-CPO...

 

[bruce]

And finally' date=' guys, please stay away from meaningless terms like "responsiveness." It has no root in bicycle science.

[/quote']

Yes, I much prefer power output over 5 second duration when talking about responsiveness

CP0.08

 

Preeecisely!

[Johan Bornman]

 

I once picked up and kicked the tyres of a scandium/aluminium

 

Sorry JB - I meant Sc-Al. Pure Sc is very rare/expensive. I havent seen a Sc-Al frame' date=' but KCNC do all their components in SC-AL. They're not outrageously expensive and are a bit lighter than their carbon counter parts.

 

Have you had any experience with these Sc-Al components? how would you rate them compared to plain old carbon fibre/titanium?

 

thanks

[/quote']

 

Sorry, no experience there. My parts are still made of iron. One of these days I'll upgrade to something exotic like 7-speed and aluminium.

 

I find it fascinating that the crave for exotic metals has its roots in the cold war. Titanium used to be very, very rare and most of it was used up by the military. The turning point came when Gorbachov (SP?) opened up the USSR and they started to dismantle missiles. Suddenly titanium came on the open market. Symbolically some of this exotic stuff was melted down and a golf driver was made from it and handed to Ronal Reagan who played the symbolic round with a melted-down russian missile.

 

Thereafter the Japanese Citizen watch company bought some of those molten missile hulls and made a range of cunky men's sports watches from Titanium. That got the boys talking.

 

Then it got all a bit passe and I notice that scandium is now the next best thing. I read on the Wiki article someone linked here, that that too has its roots in the cold war.

 

We're now running out of things on the periodic table to make the next bicycle from. Perhaps we need a new cold war for new inspiration.

 

But to get back to scandium alloy parts. I don't think you'll notice anything.  Our current designs are stiff enough (as evident by brake squeal that is just about something of the past) and skeleton frame callipers seems to be the next frontier where they can shave weight.