High Service Cost

[RobertWhitehead]

On 4/13/2024 at 10:15 AM, madmarc said:

3801 2 RS - 8 off (21X12X8) - Last paid R 299 each (this was the killer same price overseas)

6800 2RS - 8 off (19X10X5)- Last paid R 80 each

17286 2RS MAX - 4 off - Last paid R 80 each

I also had a Superfly - bearings were fairly cheap to replace - Different story with the Fuels

Ok, so I have made contact with my connection in Hanoi this morning. Here's the prices I can find on the codes provided, I have multiple options (Unit Prices listed below) so I will list them in descending order: 

3801 2 RS 

• R 264.88 
•  R 134.78
• R 124.33
• R 71.34
• R 56.60
• R 50.94     

 6800 2RS

• Around - R 18.50

  17286 2RS MAX

• Price varies between R 70 & R 170

Yes, I know exactly what your next statement is going to be: But the quality is sooooo much better on the more expensive bearing and therefore it justifies the additional cost. I have attached an interesting article and you're welcome to make your own conclusion 

https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bearings-vs-steel-bearings-an-engineering-analysis/

My statement still stands: The high service charge is made up because of % profit added onto the stock items on top of the labor charge, so the lbs buys a bearing from a middleman (not the supplier directly) for lets say the top one: R 151, they then add their mark-up and attribute it to fuel costs and lunch for the driver and and and. So they then charge you R300 and you then ask them to fit it for you. So instead of charging you a reduced rate of lets call it R200 and add a labor charge of R150 they keep the price at R299 each and add a labor charge on top of that. 

The way suppliers protect this monopoly and the whole supply chain is to not sell directly to the public. 

The other way is to just not bring in the part needed to repair it. So you sit with a R20k trainer which you cannot fix because you don't have access to the part. This is where places like Shein, Temu, AliExpress, Alibaba etc. are opening the market and allowing the consumer access to parts. 

 

[madmarc]

47 minutes ago, RobertWhitehead said:

Ok, so I have made contact with my connection in Hanoi this morning. Here's the prices I can find on the codes provided, I have multiple options (Unit Prices listed below) so I will list them in descending order: 

3801 2 RS 

• R 264.88 
•  R 134.78
• R 124.33
• R 71.34
• R 56.60
• R 50.94     

 6800 2RS

• Around - R 18.50

  17286 2RS MAX

• Price varies between R 70 & R 170

Yes, I know exactly what your next statement is going to be: But the quality is sooooo much better on the more expensive bearing and therefore it justifies the additional cost. I have attached an interesting article and you're welcome to make your own conclusion 

https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bearings-vs-steel-bearings-an-engineering-analysis/

My statement still stands: The high service charge is made up because of % profit added onto the stock items on top of the labor charge, so the lbs buys a bearing from a middleman (not the supplier directly) for lets say the top one: R 151, they then add their mark-up and attribute it to fuel costs and lunch for the driver and and and. So they then charge you R300 and you then ask them to fit it for you. So instead of charging you a reduced rate of lets call it R200 and add a labor charge of R150 they keep the price at R299 each and add a labor charge on top of that. 

The way suppliers protect this monopoly and the whole supply chain is to not sell directly to the public. 

The other way is to just not bring in the part needed to repair it. So you sit with a R20k trainer which you cannot fix because you don't have access to the part. This is where places like Shein, Temu, AliExpress, Alibaba etc. are opening the market and allowing the consumer access to parts. 

 

You got to be careful with the 3801 2RS bearing dimensions

I found a few suppliers that were much cheaper than 299 - But on closer inspection they were 7.0mm width 

The only manufacturer i could find that were 8.0mm were Enduro and i think this is where the MAX wording comes in. I also asked a mate who works at bearing Man to try find them - Also came back and said only place is Enduro bearings.

I didnt read your article, but i also dont buy the whole quality thing - Bearings are desigend for much higher performance than they experience on a MTB suspension enviroment - Even the cheapest bearings will last as long as the most expensive ones - Bearing failure on MTBing is from moisture and dirt which will kill any bearing irrespective of the quality. 

[BaGearA]

6 minutes ago, madmarc said:

You got to be careful with the 3801 2RS bearing dimensions

I found a few suppliers that were much cheaper than 299 - But on closer inspection they were 7.0mm width 

The only manufacturer i could find that were 8.0mm were Enduro and i think this is where the MAX wording comes in. I also asked a mate who works at bearing Man to try find them - Also came back and said only place is Enduro bearings.

I didnt read your article, but i also dont buy the whole quality thing - Bearings are desigend for much higher performance than they experience on a MTB suspension enviroment - Even the cheapest bearings will last as long as the most expensive ones - Bearing failure on MTBing is from moisture and dirt which will kill any bearing irrespective of the quality. 

That's because its a Trek bearing made by Enduro 

 

Its doesn't appear on any other frame that I'm aware of other than Treks , you are right you can find them cheap but then its the 7m one not the double row 11 or 12mm one

[BaGearA]

8 minutes ago, madmarc said:

You got to be careful with the 3801 2RS bearing dimensions

I found a few suppliers that were much cheaper than 299 - But on closer inspection they were 7.0mm width 

The only manufacturer i could find that were 8.0mm were Enduro and i think this is where the MAX wording comes in. I also asked a mate who works at bearing Man to try find them - Also came back and said only place is Enduro bearings.

I didnt read your article, but i also dont buy the whole quality thing - Bearings are desigend for much higher performance than they experience on a MTB suspension enviroment - Even the cheapest bearings will last as long as the most expensive ones - Bearing failure on MTBing is from moisture and dirt which will kill any bearing irrespective of the quality. 

Just a note on this , years ago I had to replace 6903's in a front hub. 

 

The previous chinese ones lasted barely a year. 

 

Bit hard on a set of NTN bearings , I roughly remember nearly R150 each 

 

Couple of years on I sold those wheels with those bearings still in there , so even if its just down to betters seals I ill always but the best possible bearing I can ( and I don't include Enduro in that , their bearings are mediocre at best ) 

[madmarc]

41 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

That's because its a Trek bearing made by Enduro 

 

Its doesn't appear on any other frame that I'm aware of other than Treks , you are right you can find them cheap but then its the 7m one not the double row 11 or 12mm one

I dont buy that they are made for TREK - If that be the case you would only be able to get them from a TREK store - You can get them through any bike shop that stocks Enduro bearings

[BaGearA]

1 hour ago, madmarc said:

I dont buy that they are made for TREK - If that be the case you would only be able to get them from a TREK store - You can get them through any bike shop that stocks Enduro bearings

they are NOT made by trek.

 

They are by ENDURO FOR TREK i.e. any bike shop who buys from rush can get them.

 

 

[MarcoDeS]

What’s the Best LbS to service in Joburg? 

[love2fly]

3 hours ago, madmarc said:

You got to be careful with the 3801 2RS bearing dimensions

I found a few suppliers that were much cheaper than 299 - But on closer inspection they were 7.0mm width 

The only manufacturer i could find that were 8.0mm were Enduro and i think this is where the MAX wording comes in. I also asked a mate who works at bearing Man to try find them - Also came back and said only place is Enduro bearings.

I didnt read your article, but i also dont buy the whole quality thing - Bearings are desigend for much higher performance than they experience on a MTB suspension enviroment - Even the cheapest bearings will last as long as the most expensive ones - Bearing failure on MTBing is from moisture and dirt which will kill any bearing irrespective of the quality. 

For pivot it's essential to use Max, which eliminates BMG etc. Max bearings are "full compliment" afaik with no race and extra balls as pivots don't spin but rotate back and forth between 1/4 and 1/2 a turn at a time.