So what does this mean?

[Serendipity]

Yes, but what is the question?

[scotty]

Maybe PM Bruce

[FanieFiets]

Do a test.

Weigh your bikes. Add weight to his bike (brick in backpack) so that its equal.  Then add another 2.3 kg to the backpack to make you power to weight ratios the same. Then klimb hill!!!!

 

Or you can lose 3 kgs plus weight of bike and do the test but i think it will take longer.

 

[wpdeb]

Although your power to weight ratios may be the same, all is not necessarily equal.

Genetic make up is more important - a lot depends on what type of muscle fiber predominates in a specific athlete - the slow twitchers will be better at climbing while the fast twitchers will be better sprinters.

Bigger cyclists are unfortunately not good climbers - unfortunately gravity starts playing a role - a lot of the watts the bigger climber produces are used to overcome the weight resistance first before he starts to generate forward motion.

Well that is my theory.

[bruce]

The power numbers specified here are 'Peak Power Output' which is usually the term used for Power at VO2Max (pVO2Max). What test was performed? Most likely Conconi.

 

 

 

A much better predictor of performance is power at lactate threshold. This can change significantly with training, whereas pVO2Max changes less.

 

 

 

Power at lactate threshold is some percentage of pVO2Max and various significantly. So:

 

1. Both riders should do a longer duration TT test to see the true difference in performance ability.

 

2. Both riders are similar potential, but the better rider's lactate threshold is a higher percentage of his VO2Max.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bruce]

Rider 1:

 

PPO = 293w (4.09w/kg)

 

pLT = 173w (2.41w/kg)

 

Weight = 71.5kg

 

 

 

Rider 2:

 

PPO = 355w (4.06w/kg)

 

pLT = 205w (2.34w/kg)

 

Weight = 87.5kg

 

 

 

So Rider 1/Rider 2:

 

PPO = 4.09/4.06 = 1.007 i.e 0.7% better

 

pLT = 2.41/2.34 = 1.0299 i.e. 2.99% better

 

 

 

Given that the difference between CP20 (20min max power) and CP60 (60 min max power) is typically 5%, you see why Rider 1 can climb a lot longer than Rider 2.

 

 

 

This is just working off lactate turnpoint and assuming both riders have similar lactate tolerance.

[Dicky DQ]

Thanks Bruce.

 

I have been told to do short intervals at max effort to try and improve my lactate threshold. What is your take on this?

[Barend de Arend]

 

Why is it that Rider 1 always outclimbs Rider 2??

 

Is rider2's head just soft or is there another reason?

[/quote']

 

What kind of climbs?  Climbs in Joburg usually last 5 or maybe 10 minutes, so FTP (power for an hour) doesn't matter.  You're looking at 5 minute anaerobic bursts.

 

Maybe rider 1's position on the bike is better, or swaps standing/sitting efforts better so that more muscles are used, and more muscles get a rest.  Was your position on the bike in the lab the same as on the road?  Seated?

 

Or maybe it is all in the head

 

How big a gap?  5% faster?  50% faster?

 

[Dicky DQ]

What kind of climbs?  Climbs in Joburg usually last 5 or maybe 10 minutes, so FTP (power for an hour) doesn't matter.  You're looking at 5 minute anaerobic bursts.

Maybe rider 1's position on the bike is better, or swaps standing/sitting efforts better so that more muscles are used, and more muscles get a rest.  Was your position on the bike in the lab the same as on the road?  Seated?

Or maybe it is all in the head

How big a gap?  5% faster?  50% faster?

 

About 1 to 1.5 minutes on a 45minute mtb climb and about 1.5 to 2 mins on a 40min road climb.

 

I also think it is the head. Maybe i am just too much of a moffie for this cycling thing.

[bruce]

Thanks Bruce.

 

I have been told to do short intervals at max effort to try and improve my lactate threshold. What is your take on this?

 

For what duration?

 

10sec intervals typically target neuro-muscular power

1min intervals target anaerobic capacity

5min intervals target ventilatory threshold (VO2Max)

20min intervals target lactate threshold

 

5min intervals will improve power at lactate threshold, gains are rapid but gains also plateau quite quickly

 

Focused lactate threshold improvement is done through sub-threshold riding (around 95% of threshold) for durations of 20 minutes or more.  The longer the duration, the lower the percentage of lactate threshold that can be maintained.

[bruce]

What kind of climbs?  Climbs in Joburg usually last 5 or maybe 10 minutes' date=' so FTP (power for an hour) doesn't matter.  You're looking at 5 minute anaerobic bursts.

Maybe rider 1's position on the bike is better, or swaps standing/sitting efforts better so that more muscles are used, and more muscles get a rest.  Was your position on the bike in the lab the same as on the road?  Seated?

Or maybe it is all in the head

How big a gap?  5% faster?  50% faster?
[/quote']

 

About 1 to 1.5 minutes on a 45minute mtb climb and about 1.5 to 2 mins on a 40min road climb.

 

I also think it is the head. Maybe i am just too much of a moffie for this cycling thing.

 

Nope, I think the slight difference in w/kg at threshold would account for 1.5min on a 45min climb.

 

[JPW#]

I agree with that theory. But losing too much weight is also not good... George Hincapi would have won the 2005 tour if he didn't lose an extra 6kg before the tour,71kg for a guy 1.89m tall is just too skinny!

[paulvs]

never underestimate the power of mental agility

[bruce]

I agree with that theory. But losing too much weight is also not good... George Hincapi would have won the 2005 tour if he didn't lose an extra 6kg before the tour' date='71kg for a guy 1.89m tall is just too skinny! [/quote']

 

not saying he needs to lose weight.  I'm saying he needs to improve watts/kg at threshold - which can be achieved by losing weight or improving pLT.

[TNT1]

 

George Hincapi would have won the 2005 tour 

 

There really should be a rule that you shouldn't be allowed on the interwebs when you are drunk.

 

[linnega]

 

George Hincapi would have won the 2005 tour 

 

There really should be a rule that you shouldn't be allowed on the interwebs when you are drunk.

Agreed