Jules Posted March 20, 2009 Share ENOUGH ALREADY !? I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you. Right. If you don't like it' date=' just stop looking. Thirty pages and nothing new since about page ten.Just rehash upon rehash. That's not entirely true either. You must have missed the bit when Brandon Els told us how he told Fritz what he could do with his collusion ideas. You must have also missed the bit where some anonymous hubber with only four posts published an e-mail, which looks remarkably genuine, in which Els threatens Zoon Cronje, formerly of Silverback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 20, 2009 Share Umh, again consider this. What good does higher prices do for the development of cycling? More expensive bikes to save a luxury industry. South Africa since Oom Paul have always liked and understood concessions monopolies and cartels. I think the entire idea is very short sighted. A sort of get rich quick before cyclists get smart scheme. I still cannot understand that two South African Champions, who should know and understand the situation of cyclists should take the side of the retailer/wholesaler over the consumer/cyclist. Me thinks they are no longer in it for the love of cycling but rather now in it for the love of money. Maybe they can become exercise consultants to the Rhema church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted March 20, 2009 Share retailers got together to discuss raising margins unilaterally. Thats a crime. or do we need another 30 pages to spell it out again...? The question is are there mitigating circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guy in Pink Posted March 20, 2009 Share How do you KNOW that they have committed a crime? Let's get all the facts before we say anything else In a court of law an artifact is used to ensure a fair trial - the accused is presumed innocent. In real life however we all use our judgement on what we see and form opinions. So when we see a guy at a traffic light which a sign which says " No Job 6 kids to feed - God Bless" tend we keep our wallet and cellphone out of sight and the door locked - We do not assume his sign is a true statement of his suitation and faith or that he is a person to be trusted. The Hub is part of real life so some of us have seen what has been said, and formed our opinions on this topic. Veteraan , this is your second post on the Hub, why not introduce yourself so that your friends here can welcome you properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Els Posted March 20, 2009 Share retailers got together to discuss raising margins unilaterally.Thats a crime. or do we need another 30 pages to spell it out again...?The question is are there mitigating circumstances. GoLefty In 2007 Oakley paid an R 212 000 admission of guilt fine for fixing prices at retailers in South Africa. Too many good people are being hurt by what is being posted on this forum. Human beings err and I believe that an error was made in arranging this meeting. Even though Probike did not agree with the meeting we still did attend the meeting which in hindsight is also an error. The intention of the meeting was incorrect, but I am prepared to sign an affidavit that I am not aware of any pricing in the bicycle industry actually being affected and I have many people in the industry from who I can gather this proof. I suggest that all attendies of the meeting negotiate an admission of guilt fine with the competitions commission based on the intention, but not the outcome of the meeting. This will stop some attendies of the meeting being left to dry and take all the heat. Collective responsibility should be taken for the error in judgement of the intention of the meeting and even though I disagreed with Fritz on the intention of the meeting, he and Andrew should not be hung out to dry on this matter. There were too many people present. Oakley have done this in 2007 and they are a great company who also err'd. This is my view of a resolution. We have all stated our points of view. Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted March 20, 2009 Share Hahahaha, I wonder if Raleigh owners will take the moral high ground and boycott the product... Somehow I don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted March 20, 2009 Share Actually it would be the moral high ground to buy Raleigh. He's been the first to admit that he made a mistake, and he has noted that he attended the meeting reluctantly and did not agree with the proposal for higher margins. If the topic of this thread is to be believed, Fritz vigorously denies any wrongdoing. I'd argue, however, that his e-mail is a smoking gun. The mature response, in my opinion, would be something along the lines of what Brandon has said. "Yes, we made a mistake. We're sorry. Despite our meeting, there has not been any coordinated price increase and hence consumers are unaffected. We'll co-operate entirely with the Commission. We'll accept any sanction that is handed down." Now wouldn't that be refreshing? If Fritz was my LBS, I'd be the first oke through the door the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted March 20, 2009 Share retailers got together to discuss raising margins unilaterally. Thats a crime. or do we need another 30 pages to spell it out again...? The question is are there mitigating circumstances. GoLefty In 2007 Oakley paid an R 212 000 admission of guilt fine for fixing prices at retailers in South Africa. Too many good people are being hurt by what is being posted on this forum. Human beings err and I believe that an error was made in arranging this meeting. Even though Probike did not agree with the meeting we still did attend the meeting which in hindsight is also an error. The intention of the meeting was incorrect' date=' but I am prepared to sign an affidavit that I am not aware of any pricing in the bicycle industry actually being affected and I have many people in the industry from who I can gather this proof. I suggest that all attendies of the meeting negotiate an admission of guilt fine with the competitions commission based on the intention, but not the outcome of the meeting. This will stop some attendies of the meeting being left to dry and take all the heat. Collective responsibility should be taken for the error in judgement of the intention of the meeting and even though I disagreed with Fritz on the intention of the meeting, he and Andrew should not be hung out to dry on this matter. There were too many people present. Oakley have done this in 2007 and they are a great company who also err'd. This is my view of a resolution. We have all stated our points of view. Brandon [/quote'] Brandon, this is probably the most mature thing that has been said thus far wrt this matter. This is certainly the best option for all involved parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW# Posted March 20, 2009 Share All I know is that cwc cycles went bananas with their chain prices....260 to 370 for a xtr chain , thats a big hike in a weeks time. I need to buy up the old stock soon before I cant cycle anymore due to the nutty prices out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEEL Niner Posted March 20, 2009 Share big up to Brandon for taking the time to air an insiders point of view. from what i can gather Brandon and Anton form summit have been the only ones from the meeting to put a toe in the shark infested hub waters in public to voice their views on the situation. It is naive to think the other parties involved are not keeping an eye on this as "guests" or whatever but obviously to **** scared to actually join and post. I am sure Brandon and the team have much better things to do like watch their 'boys' in blue and yellow kick some serious @ss tomorrow in the Epic prologue. So personally to Brandon, thanks for trying to shed some light on the facts from the inside for all us armchair critics on the outside. It has put you guys in even a higher light and i hope your product image does not suffer because of this. As for the 'masterminds' behind the meeting, different story altogether......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted March 20, 2009 Share I agree with the two opinions above from Jules and Lefty. I don't think one or two individuals (Andrew and Fritz) should be hung out to dry, as Brandon puts it. I know of others at that meeting that went there with great rage towards good competition in the the industry and couldn't wait to get there to "&^%%$ them up". Now that same individual's defence is that the minutes were inaccurate.Yes there were ringleaders, but moral disscent was conspicuous in its limited absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted March 20, 2009 Share Yes there were ringleaders' date=' but moral disscent was conspicuous in its limited absence. [/quote'] And this is what is alarming about the whole fiasco... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman1834 Posted March 20, 2009 Share < ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 11">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 11"><> It is very simple: Bicycle prices goes true the roof, race entries gets ridiculous. Less people buy bikes, les people go to races, smaller racesgets less tv coverage and sponsors pull out. No more ?fun? riders to pay license fees thus less money tosend pros over sea. The result: a sport that has grown over years dies, somepeople will still drive their fancy cars and live in fancy houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted March 20, 2009 Share What is obvious to me is that there will have to be a "Nacht der langen Messer" and some "grassing" amongst retailers and suppliers, it's going to be ugly but such is the nature of competetive capitalist business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted March 20, 2009 Share well the biggest ringleader of all has not said a word yet, mostly likely will not. and although count Dukoo and General Grievous are in deep since they planned the meetings, there is still this Darth Sidious lurking in the background... Things are never what they seem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored girl Posted March 20, 2009 Share All I know is that cwc cycles went bananas with their chain prices....260 to 370 for a xtr chain ' date=' thats a big hike in a weeks time. I need to buy up the old stock soon before I cant cycle anymore due to the nutty prices out there![/quote'] Suggestion.....buy Deore chains??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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