Hill training with no hills!!

[Willehond]

OK, when it comes to riding without hills, I'm king.  There aint nowhere flatter than here!!!  The thing is you have to ride at max power, not just a big gear!  The only reason people associate big gears with hills is because they run out of gears on steep hills and then grind their way up.  You will just hurt your knees and get no real benefit.  The secret is to find a good headwind and ride as hard as possible (constant power/effort!) for about 15 or 20 minutes.  Relax and repeat it a couple of times and your climbing will improve.

 

Hills don't give you the option of relaxing when climbing, so try to simulate that on the flat.  It's about power, not cadence.  Long high power intervals.

[Bos]

OK' date=' when it comes to riding without hills, I'm king.  There aint nowhere flatter than here!!!  The thing is you have to ride at max power, not just a big gear!  The only reason people associate big gears with hills is because they run out of gears on steep hills and then grind their way up.  You will just hurt your knees and get no real benefit.  The secret is to find a good headwind and ride as hard as possible (constant power/effort!) for about 15 or 20 minutes.  Relax and repeat it a couple of times and your climbing will improve.

 

Hills don't give you the option of relaxing when climbing, so try to simulate that on the flat.  It's about power, not cadence.  Long high power intervals.

[/quote']

 

Almost like tempo? but tempo Is slightly longer.  Ride a Pace you can "Just" keep up, not quite fullout cause you will explode after 1 minute.

 

The Carmichael dude calls it "timetrial intensity" its about 85-90% of MAX HR

 

 

Willehond ?

[Willehond]

For me tempo is riding at a high constant pace (please correct me dear experts), the 'hill' intervals are shorter and at a slightly higher intensity - threshold stuff.   Three intervals at the max intensity you can maintain for that period is ideal.  Nothing that improves you cycling like threshold intervals.

[SwissVan]

 

Hmmm...beachsand will not be good' date=' our is full of tgitanium and all such beautiful abrasives

 

During the intervals, should I use my heart rate as an indicator of how hard I am working, or should I just put the hammer down? I suspect for five minute reps the heart rate should not be an issue, and it is a training ride. As stated before, my fitness level is quite good.

[/quote']

 

Yes you need to ride quite hard, there's 2 things to take into account:

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1. Typically climbing hills requires pedaling at a lower cadence, low cadence training simulates this and strengthens the muscles, tendons, ligaments etc? you use while cycling - more so than pedaling at higher cadences. Something else you can do is to vary the cadence i.e.

1min @ 70, 1min @ 75, 1 min @ 80, 1 min @ 90 and 1 min @ 80, 1 min @ 75?..

2. You can do the reps mostly within your aerobic zone or 70 ? 75% of Max Hr, as you progress you can increase the effort to just below your lactate threshold or 80% of max HR.

 

HR lag is a problem with the shorter intervals, but after doing a few you will learn what speed to ride until your HR catches up.

 

 

[Bos]

Ok, I think youre right Willehond. Im not trying to confuse, this is for once a constructive discussion

 

I have a 20min 3km hill on my mtb loop and there is a hairpin at about 13mins, I always go hard-ish the first section kind of like a advanved warm up which gets my Cardio system purring smoothly and then from the Hairpin I go full-ball I find that If I had to go fullball from normal say 70% HR I would only be able to sustain it for a short time but because youre building  up to it you condition yourself better. sometimes I go so hard that I get goosbumps from it haha

[DaLoCo]

OK' date=' when it comes to riding without hills, I'm king.  There aint nowhere flatter than here!!!  The thing is you have to ride at max power, not just a big gear!  The only reason people associate big gears with hills is because they run out of gears on steep hills and then grind their way up.  You will just hurt your knees and get no real benefit.  The secret is to find a good headwind and ride as hard as possible (constant power/effort!) for about 15 or 20 minutes.  Relax and repeat it a couple of times and your climbing will improve.

 

Hills don't give you the option of relaxing when climbing, so try to simulate that on the flat.  It's about power, not cadence.  Long high power intervals.

[/quote']

 

Almost like tempo? but tempo Is slightly longer.  Ride a Pace you can "Just" keep up, not quite fullout cause you will explode after 1 minute.

 

The Carmichael dude calls it "timetrial intensity" its about 85-90% of MAX HR

 

 

Willehond ?

 

The way I see it, I would have to know when I am running at max power, but not full out yet..... Basically choose a gear which makes me work hard to maintain speed, but at the same time making me feel that I can do it for a period of time.

 

This would work in conjunction with me monitoribng my heart rate and not letting it go above 90%, but not letting go below say 80%?

 

You guys are giving me good info, which is quite easily programmable into my Garmin. I do spend a lot of time riding alone, as the rest of the group start work 2 hrs after me.....which is why I bought the Garmin. Now you guys have helped me to set up a training program that is goal orientated.

 

I suppose once this training pays it's dues the key would be to ride a higher cadence when hill climbing during competition, but this time round I will have the strenght to actually maintain cadence in a heavier gear

[DaLoCo]

 

Hmmm...beachsand will not be good' date=' our is full of tgitanium and all such beautiful abrasives

 

During the intervals, should I use my heart rate as an indicator of how hard I am working, or should I just put the hammer down? I suspect for five minute reps the heart rate should not be an issue, and it is a training ride. As stated before, my fitness level is quite good.

[/quote']

 

Yes you need to ride quite hard, there's 2 things to take into account:

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

1. Typically climbing hills requires pedaling at a lower cadence, low cadence training simulates this and strengthens the muscles, tendons, ligaments etc? you use while cycling - more so than pedaling at higher cadences. Something else you can do is to vary the cadence i.e.

1min @ 70, 1min @ 75, 1 min @ 80, 1 min @ 90 and 1 min @ 80, 1 min @ 75?..

2. You can do the reps mostly within your aerobic zone or 70 ? 75% of Max Hr, as you progress you can increase the effort to just below your lactate threshold or 80% of max HR.

 

HR lag is a problem with the shorter intervals, but after doing a few you will learn what speed to ride until your HR catches up.

 

 

 

Very good to know I was thinking to go for around 80 to 85%, which would have been a mistake

[SwissVan]

 

Hmmm...beachsand will not be good' date=' our is full of tgitanium and all such beautiful abrasives

 

During the intervals, should I use my heart rate as an indicator of how hard I am working, or should I just put the hammer down? I suspect for five minute reps the heart rate should not be an issue, and it is a training ride. As stated before, my fitness level is quite good.

[/quote']

 

Yes you need to ride quite hard, there's 2 things to take into account:

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

1. Typically climbing hills requires pedaling at a lower cadence, low cadence training simulates this and strengthens the muscles, tendons, ligaments etc? you use while cycling - more so than pedaling at higher cadences. Something else you can do is to vary the cadence i.e.

1min @ 70, 1min @ 75, 1 min @ 80, 1 min @ 90 and 1 min @ 80, 1 min @ 75?..

2. You can do the reps mostly within your aerobic zone or 70 ? 75% of Max Hr, as you progress you can increase the effort to just below your lactate threshold or 80% of max HR.

 

HR lag is a problem with the shorter intervals, but after doing a few you will learn what speed to ride until your HR catches up.

 

 

 

Very good to know I was thinking to go for around 80 to 85%, which would have been a mistake

 

Well it depends how much you have already trained at this intensity, if you are already used to this intensity (80 - 85%) then go ahead, but if not then rather build up to it with shorter intervals at a slightly lower intensity.

 

Idealy you should do a threshold test to determine your correct threshold level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SwissVan]

 

Here's a link to a website which describes the 20 minute threshold test procedure - called a field test for the bike. This will get you pretty close to your correct lactate threshold level.

 

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=633

 

Bike test protocol:

The warm-up is 15 minutes of cycling, moving through the different gears, always keeping the cadence above 90 RPMS. Do a few short sprints to get your heart rate up and ready for the test!

 

 

You should start out in a gear that you can maintain 90 RPMS in. Make sure you remember what gear you started in.

The 30 minute TT begins.

At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.

The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.

You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

 

[Bos]

 

Here's a link to a website which describes the 20 minute threshold test procedure - called a field test for the bike. This will get you pretty close to your correct lactate threshold level.

 

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=633

 

Bike test protocol:

The warm-up is 15 minutes of cycling' date=' moving through the different gears, always keeping the cadence above 90 RPMS. Do a few short sprints to get your heart rate up and ready for the test!

 

 

You should start out in a gear that you can maintain 90 RPMS in. Make sure you remember what gear you started in.

The 30 minute TT begins.

At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.

The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.

You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

 

[/quote']

 

How hard are you going here?? kind of as hard as you are going to be able to keep for 30 mins? (obviously you cant use the HR MONITOR to determine)

[SwissVan]

[

 

How hard are you going here?? kind of as hard as you are going to be able to keep for 30 mins? (obviously you cant use the HR MONITOR to determine)

 

 

The last 20 minutes should be as hard as you can go constantly for the full 20 minutes.

 

The only reason for the HR monitor is to record the event so you can calculate the average HR afterwards. Don't forget to stop the recording or to press lap at the end of the TT, otherwise you will have to do it again...

 

 

[Bos]

[

 

How hard are you going here?? kind of as hard as you are going to be able to keep for 30 mins? (obviously you cant use the HR MONITOR to determine)

 

 

The last 20 minutes should be as hard as you can go constantly for the full 20 minutes.

 

The only reason for the HR monitor is to record the event so you can calculate the average HR afterwards. Don't forget to stop the recording or to press lap at the end of the TT' date= otherwise you will have to do it again...

 

 

[/quote]

So that Average is your Threashold? I will go do the test!

Ive been having dificulty determining my max cause every calculator I ever used gave me one to high. like in the 190's, the highest I ever go and thats like once every 4 rides mabe, is 180, this is then a spike and hardly a steady climb to there.

 

The Max HR, should it be attainable?? For instance if my Garmin sais its supposed to be 192 because weight-age etc etc but I only get above 180 once in a blue moon, Is this my max? cause I cant get there. And that meens I will train to hard.. get me? whos the expert?

 

The only time I ever got max HR was at the start of the argus when the lad in font of me landed on the floor in a great big PoW! got a fright.

[SwissVan]

 

The average HR over the 20 minutes is +/- your LTH level, some people multiply it by 0.95 to be more precise. The correct test to do is a 60min TT but its harder to gauge the correct effort for the full 60 minutes, so most use the 20 min method.

 

Max HR or LTH by formulas are a guestimate based on 1000000000's of peoples data and is not always accurate for specific individuals.

 

You need to do the specific tests to determine your own individual MHR and LTH values. Max HR tests are quite strenuous and need not be done more than once as it does not change significantly in the short term, LTH effort however is more usefull and can be done more often to gauge training effect and current state of fitness.

 

 

 

 

[gummibear]

Tie a car tyre to your saddle and pull it behind you.

[DaLoCo]

I have no issues reaching my max heartrate as per Garmin. I also recover to around 100 within a few minutes. I just did a quick check....I seem to average around 80 - 85% on most of my rides.

 

I will do the check on Saturday, I have a 10km circular route which has minimal traffic interruptions on which I can do this. Do I go as hard as I can even if I gradually slow down, maintaining the intensity? Or must I try and keep a certain cadence?

 

Oops, I just re-read....."find a gear you can maintain 90 in"

DaLoCo2009-05-05 06:45:49

[Daxiet]

DaLoCo a couple questions, why not do some riding in Empangeni, you may get ridden over by the taxi's but you'll have hills around every corner?

 

Which suburb do you live in? Meerensee will offer a couple "hills", Bream Hill, the beach road by Aklanstrand, bugger trying to remember these street names and hoping no name changes have taken place like in Durban. I grew up in Meerensee and as a kid any incline felt like a hill, so perhaps they aren't as big as I remember. Come to think of it I can see why you will struggle to string sufficient climbs together in Rcb.

 

What does Zululand Cycles do for club rides and to be quite honest Sean Merredew would be the right person to speak to if you want advice, he has lived there all his life and has a great race record.