shadowchaser-d Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Andrew cleared the issue and received the ok from CSA to ride in both categories some time before SA's' date=' making his plans based on their confirmation letter. the situation was exploited by (an?) opportunistc rider(s) that found an easy yet appalingy lame way to eliminate the strongest rider from the race, capitalising on inconsistent rulings and capitulation by the race organisation...Very Sad for cycling in SA indeed!!!![/quote'] So did the above mentioned riders podium?
Seawalker Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 he would have been able to ride a cat down' date=' but then that is the only cat you can participate in....but Andrew rode the 45 - 49 TT and wanted to ride then in the 40 - 44 road race, what he should have done when the controvercy started, just to have ridden the 45 - 49 road race as well. [/quote'] Andrew actually confirmed and obtained permission from CSA to participate in both categories (as is allowable at Vets and Masters World Championships under the auspice of UCI) beforehand.That permission was overruled by Race organisation... the problem is/was that the rules (again) were not applied consistantly in this case....but then again also for allowing race radio's in the 30 - 34 age cat....But all is hinde sight This was most certainly not a case of inconsistent rule aplication, this was a case of teams Blatantly ignoring the Race Managers Meeting the night before the race, whereby some conditions were objected to by the team managers that actually took the time to attend the Managers meeting (there was only a handfull) and it was agreed that the rule would be printed and distributed to the team managers the following morning, and the following morning the race commissaire conceded that the rule/s was to vague to be enforced, thereby allowing some objections to stand. Some Teams made the effort to attend the meetingOthers chose to watch the rugby instead en were therefore not up to date with what transpired in the Managers Meeting, and ultimately put their teams at a disatvantage....That is Basic Management gone wrong, not inconsistent application of the rules, I am sorry...
Trubie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Name and shame..I still wanna know who the first 3 were?
Trubie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 ThanksI'll have a look WW, werent any results when I checked earlier.
mallo Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 AM will always remain a threat to any age group he rides in even at fun rides, shows you how many cyclists actually go to race for second place when they hear AM has entered their category. What a hollow victory for the category, how do you accept the champonship knowing you DQ'd your main rival? Officials need to have the book thrown at them for THEIR debarcle.
bruce Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Okay, let's just get some of the facts documented before the wild speculating can begin: - Andrew asked before entering S.A.'s if he could ride both age categories. His reason was that he was traveling a long way and would like to compete in both events. This would mean that he would race 45-49 on Sat afternoon, and 40-44 on Sunday morning (not much more than 12 hours apart). He was given permission, in writing, and had to pay twice the entry fees. His name was listed in both start lists. - When we arrived in Oudtshoorn, we were told that there had been complaints about this. - CSA held a meeting on Friday night to discuss the situation. They rules that Andrew could only compete in one race, and that it would be his choice as to which category he would race. That was the ruling of the officials. - Andrew tried to get a flight back to Joburg on Sat night. He couldn't, and decided he would rather race with the rest of the team in the 40-44 cat. - On Saturday night we were told that a 'petition' was being organised to petition against him riding the 40-44 cat. We were told who was organising the petition as well. - When we arrived at the start, Andrew was told by one of the officials that verbal threats had been overheard regarding him during the race. - At the start line, Jorge Faria made a public speech regarding the rules, and that Andrew should not be allowed to race. Jorge is not in the 40-44 age group. - The officials stated that Andrew WAS entitled to race the race. - Andrew asked for a show of hands as to who did not want him to race. - Quite a few guys put up their hands. - Andrew withdrew from the race. - After the race start, CSA nullifed the start and tried to locate Andrew to ask him to start the race. They couldn't find him because he went riding the route in the opposite direction. - The race was allowed to continue. Those are the facts. Edit: The 45-49 age group was won by Mark Beneke, riding down from the 50-55 age group.bruce2009-06-01 06:13:31
Frosty Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 VET MEN 40-44 ROAD RACE PLACE RIDER NAME CLUB TIME OFF LEADER 1 347 DEON COETZEE TONY IMPEY CYCLES 02:55:02 2 367 MARK LININGTON CLUB 100 02:55:02 00:00:00 3 373 JOHN O'CONNOR DAIKIN/GU 02:55:02 00:00:00
Trubie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Thanks FrostyI saw the results, and not surprised that Deon won.
mallo Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Wonder whether they beat one another up(verbal)and in public again as they did at the MTN crit last year when Andrew made mince meat of them. Shame on so called sportspersons.
Trubie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Okay' date=' let's just get some of the facts documented before the wild speculating can begin: - Andrew asked before entering S.A.'s if he could ride both age categories. His reason was that he was traveling a long way and would like to compete in both events. This would mean that he would race 45-49 on Sat afternoon, and 40-44 on Sunday morning (not much more than 12 hours apart). He was given permission, in writing, and had to pay twice the entry fees. His name was listed in both start lists. - When we arrived in Oudtshoorn, we were told that there had been complaints about this. - CSA held a meeting on Friday night to discuss the situation. They rules that Andrew could only compete in one race, and that it would be his choice as to which category he would race. That was the ruling of the officials. - Andrew tried to get a flight back to Joburg on Sat night. He couldn't, and decided he would rather race with the rest of the team in the 40-44 cat. - On Saturday night we were told that a 'petition' was being organised to petition against him riding the 40-44 cat. We were told who was organising the petition as well. - When we arrived at the start, Andrew was told by one of the officials that verbal threats had been overheard regarding him during the race. - At the start line, Jorge Faria made a public speech regarding the rules, and that Andrew should not be allowed to race. Jorge is not in the 40-44 age group. - The officials stated that Andrew WAS entitled to race the race. - Andrew asked for a show of hands as to who did not want him to race. - Quite a few guys put up their hands. - Andrew withdrew from the race. - After the race start, CSA nullifed the start and tried to locate Andrew to ask him to start the race. They couldn't find him because he went riding the route in the opposite direction. - The race was allowed to continue. Those are the facts. Edit: The 45-49 age group was won by Mark Beneke, riding down from the 50-55 age group.[/quote'] No protest??????This whole mess is so typical of what I have learnt in a very short time, of the ineptness of our national Cycling body.Oh yes, and dont forget the jealousy towards people, especially some like AM, who will kick most riders butts no matter where he rides.If the guy can ride with a younger age group, what the..........
Frosty Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 the problem is/was that the rules (again) were not applied consistantly in this case....but then again also for allowing race radio's in the 30 - 34 age cat.... But all is hinde sight Couldn't agree more... Apparantly the rules were not followed the day before - 16 woman on the start line (Ladies 40-44) yet there were 5 team cars (4 riders per team to qualify for a team car it stated in the race bible). Even if teams combined to make up the numbers, there were more back-up vehicles than allowed. They changed the rules the night before (regarding the radios) - why allow it for the Vets 30-34, 35-39 and 40-44 and not the other categories that raced on the Saturday.
Poison Ivy Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 he would have been able to ride a cat down' date=' but then that is the only cat you can participate in....but Andrew rode the 45 - 49 TT and wanted to ride then in the 40 - 44 road race, what he should have done when the controvercy started, just to have ridden the 45 - 49 road race as well. [/quote'] Andrew actually confirmed and obtained permission from CSA to participate in both categories (as is allowable at Vets and Masters World Championships under the auspice of UCI) beforehand. That permission was overruled by Race organisation... the problem is/was that the rules (again) were not applied consistantly in this case....but then again also for allowing race radio's in the 30 - 34 age cat....But all is hinde sight This was most certainly not a case of inconsistent rule aplication' date=' this was a case of teams Blatantly ignoring the Race Managers Meeting the night before the race, whereby some conditions were objected to by the team managers that actually took the time to attend the Managers meeting (there was only a handfull) and it was agreed that the rule would be printed and distributed to the team managers the following morning, and the following morning the race commissaire conceded that the rule/s was to vague to be enforced, thereby allowing some objections to stand. Some Teams made the effort to attend the meetingOthers chose to watch the rugby instead en were therefore not up to date with what transpired in the Managers Meeting, and ultimately put their teams at a disatvantage....That is Basic Management gone wrong, not inconsistent application of the rules, I am sorry...[/quote'] OK ! Got it !!
Frosty Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 VET MEN 40-44 ROAD RACE PLACE RIDER NAME CLUB TIME OFF LEADER 1 347 DEON COETZEE TONY IMPEY CYCLES 02:55:02 2 367 MARK LININGTON CLUB 100 02:55:02 00:00:00 3 373 JOHN O'CONNOR DAIKIN/GU 02:55:02 00:00:00 4 380 ROBBIE SETTON VELO ATLANTICO 02:55:02 00:00:00 5 328 WAYNE GIRDLESTONE TELKOM CYCLING CLUB 02:55:02 00:00:00 6 358 THEUNS DAVIDTZ SPEKE CYCLING CLUB 02:55:02 00:00:00 7 336 DANIE MARAIS MR PRICE 02:55:02 00:00:00 8 350 GARY MARESCIA CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 02:55:02 00:00:00 9 374 GUY PIKE DAIKIN/GU 02:55:02 00:00:00 10 370 KEITH MILNER CLUB 100 02:55:02 00:00:00 11 327 BRUCE DIESEL CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 02:56:46 00:01:44 12 326 PATRICE GAUTIER CLUB 100 02:58:32 00:03:30 13 378 DANIEL SCHMEISSER CYCLES DIRECT 02:59:27 00:04:25 14 363 RIAAN JOUBERT MATIES 02:59:27 00:04:25 15 337 GARTH SCHONEWOLF BRING IT ON CYCLES 02:59:27 00:04:25 16 323 GRAEME CRONJE VELO CYCLING CLUB 02:59:57 00:04:55 17 329 IVEN SCHAREIN MR PRICE KZN 02:59:57 00:04:55 18 341 TINUS SCHEEPERS GERMISTON WHEELERS 03:02:07 00:07:05 19 375 KEVIN PRINSLOO CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 03:02:07 00:07:05 20 382 WILLIAM STELLING WPPA 03:02:07 00:07:05 21 213 RUSSELL DE JAGER VELO ATLANTICO 03:02:07 00:07:05 22 387 GERHARD WESSELS BOSS LOGISTICS 03:02:07 00:07:05 23 342 ANDRE MORSE CLUB 100 03:02:07 00:07:05 24 325 GERRIE GERMISHUIS LUSO AFRICA 03:08:39 00:13:37 25 340 RICHARD SIEBERT SELECT CYCLING CLUB 03:09:03 00:14:01 26 339 MARTIN NICHOLAS VOS OUDTSHOORN CYCLING CLUB 03:09:03 00:14:01 27 379 WARREN ROBERTSON SCOTT HERMANUS CYCLING CLUB 03:09:03 00:14:01 28 334 ANGUS MCGUFFOG CAW CYCLING CLUB 03:09:03 00:14:01 29 345 JORIS HARTEVELD NAMIBIA 03:09:03 00:14:01 30 331 NICK DU PLESSIS NAMIBIA 03:09:10 00:14:08 31 349 ANDRIES DUMINY NEW BALANCE 03:09:10 00:14:08 32 361 ANDY IRVINE GERMISTON WHEELERS 03:15:52 00:20:50 33 365 GERALD LATRE GERMISTON WHEELERS 03:15:52 00:20:50 34 368 ROLAND LOEWKE COMO BIKE 03:17:34 00:22:32 35 360 BILLY HAASBROEK BOSS LOGISTICS 03:17:34 00:22:32 36 359 MARIUS GEYSER HARMONY CYCLING CLUB 03:22:59 00:27:57 37 383 DEON TREURNICH GERMISTON WHEELERS 03:28:04 00:33:02 38 343 LIAM MACKENZIE DAIKIN/GU 03:33:43 00:38:41 39 534 SEAN WHEELER 03:39:44 00:44:42 40 346 CLINTON VAUGHN FLEMING CAMBRIDGE HARRIERS 03:47:08 00:52:06
Frosty Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 VET MEN 35-39 ROAD RACE PLACE RIDER NAME CLUB TIME OFF LEADER 1 525 MOOLMAN WELGEMOED DAIKIN/GU 03:24:54 2 469 BLAYNE WIKNER VELO (BLACKROCK) 03:24:54 00:00:00 3 508 STEFANO MADIES DIMENSION DATA 03:24:57 00:00:03 4 467 WERNER MOOLMAN MR PRICE 03:25:11 00:00:17 5 463 JOHAN LABUSCHAGNE CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 03:26:20 00:01:26 6 517 ANDREAS STUDER DAIKIN/GU 03:26:40 00:01:46 7 497 JACQUES FULLARD VELO (BLACKROCK) 03:26:40 00:01:46 8 478 DAVID LABUSCHAGNE CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 03:26:40 00:01:46 9 502 HANSIE JOUBERT VELO (BLACKROCK) 03:27:22 00:02:28 10 514 JOHANN RIBBENS PRETORIA VELO CYCLING CLUB 03:27:22 00:02:28 11 509 JACQUES MARITZ VELO (BLACKROCK) 03:31:30 00:06:36 12 503 THIERRY KING GERMISTON WHEELERS 03:31:30 00:06:36 13 466 DONOVAN O'REILLY GARMIN 03:31:30 00:06:36 14 494 VICKUS BOSHOFF CAW CYCLING CLUB 03:31:30 00:06:36 15 518 MARCO SWART CLUB 100 03:31:30 00:06:36 16 492 RONNEY BEHR CITY CYCLING 03:31:30 00:06:36 17 506 BRIAN LENNOX WELLNESS WORLD 03:31:30 00:06:36 18 495 TAT BRUMMER BLOEMFONTEIN 03:31:30 00:06:36 19 505 VICTOR LE ROUX CAW CYCLING CLUB 03:31:30 00:06:36 20 522 HERMAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN MIDDELBURG CYCLING CLUB 03:31:36 00:06:42 21 481 WILLEM SERFONTEIN OUDTSHOORN CYCLING CLUB 03:37:35 00:12:41 22 491 MARTIN ATTERBURY CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 03:40:58 00:16:04 23 477 JEAN FOURIE BLOEMFONTEIN 03:40:58 00:16:04 24 468 KOOS KLOPPER CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 03:40:58 00:16:04 25 498 GARY GEOGHEGAN KZN TRIATHLON CYCLES 03:40:58 00:16:04 26 499 CRAIG GERBER DAIKIN/GU 03:41:54 00:17:00 27 516 LIONEL SCHOLTZ TELKOM CYCLING CLUB 03:57:58 00:33:04 28 500 NICKY GREYLING TELKOM CYCLING CLUB 03:57:58 00:33:04 29 488 SIMON DAVENALL GERMISTON WHEELERS 04:00:57 00:36:03 30 487 WILLEM LODEWYK GROENEWALD CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 04:02:11 00:37:17 31 510 GERALD MARTIN GERMISTON WHEELERS 04:02:11 00:37:17 32 480 PIERRE VELDTMANN CYCLELAB SUPERCYCLING 04:02:11 00:37:17 33 515 FRANCOIS SCHOEMAN DCB LOGISTICS 04:02:35 00:37:41
Poison Ivy Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 the problem is/was that the rules (again) were not applied consistantly in this case....but then again also for allowing race radio's in the 30 - 34 age cat.... But all is hinde sight Couldn't agree more...Apparantly the rules were not followed the day before - 16 woman on the start line (Ladies 40-44) yet there were 5 team cars (4 riders per team to qualify for a team car it stated in the race bible). Even if teams combined to make up the numbers' date=' there were more back-up vehicles than allowed.They changed the rules the night before (regarding the radios) - why allow it for the Vets 30-34, 35-39 and 40-44 and not the other categories that raced on the Saturday.[/quote'] exactly my point....I believe the word I used was consistency....or lack there off the application of the rules should be fair and equal to all who participated.... allowing radio's for some and others not, gave some an unfair advantage and I'm not sure I'd like to win a SA title like that
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