Ability Seeding

[porky]

    

 

How often do you see Vets being caught by open bunches' date=' who start long after them. I was warming up for a race earlier this year, and saw a vet being dropped less than 1km from the start!!

 

 

[/quote']

 

So?

 

That happens.

 

I have been shed out of the back within the first 5 k's several times. You can have a bad day or a route that doesn't suit you. This does't even mean you can't perform.

 

I have ben the 2nd one to drop out of PPA elite league bunch within the first 5 k's, well in that same race I only got caught with 30m to go and finished top 10.

 

Its not about when you drop its about how often you get back.

 

Sometimes you can get dropped 5 or ten times and still win the event

 

 

 

Absolutely agree, it often dos. Means squat, there could be lots of reasons, even top European pros pop off the pace as we see in every race.

 

Sadly, cycling is an egotistical sport, lots of I am better / faster/ stronger than you attitudes around, who cares?, if there are those who go race SAs who shouldnt be there, so what?, they dont effect you, let them be!.

 

Hang, my accountant was a day late with my financials last year cause his wife was expecting a baby, should he now not be a CA anymore? - demote him to a bookkeeper?,......... there were reasons, I understand, the SARS office understood - no problem.

 

Same in cycling.! 

 

[Trubie]

Frosty, German,Porky

 

We are clearly not talking about the same thing here.

I was talking about riders buying racing licences, that otherwise would not even get a seeding in the "e" bunch or lower in a race. I was not talking abot riders getting dropped of the pace, big diffs guys......

 

[GreyOwl3.0]

Sorry...I've just been informed by my SO that I am living in the past and that real men dont ride bicycles...its a childs plaything.

So, with that in mind, please ignore my rant should you have read it!

GreyOwl2.02009-06-01 11:37:55

[Christie]

Just to clarify:

Is the suggestion to have Elite, A,BC..... etc groups, so in other words to stop the license age cats? Or only to stop the vets licensed age cats?

There would only be Elite nationals, then?

 

What about u12 u16 junior etc? It would be inconsistent to convert SA to an ability based system, but keep u12 u16 junior etc.

[Trubie]

k...roll your eyes and imagine me as an old geriatric telling tales of how good I was back in the day!

 

Trubie' date=' I dont agree that buying a licence gets you further up the seeding ladder...or even start list. I licensed with a racing license this year. Granted, I was not licensed last year...but when I entered the Fast One this year I was given a start in "R"category. This I understand, and have no problem with, but in my case it becomes rather disheartening.

I know this will sound egotistical, but when you have been selected by your country to race in world road champs, raced abroad on a national team and won many a road race in your career it becomes a little hard to start in "R"

Now, please bare in mind that I accept that I have not been racing the last couple years, but starting amongst guys on MTB's and dressed as Panda's is not what gets me training. I want to compete with the Vets just as I licensed to do. Like Wonder Woman said, I'm out there because I want a shot at winning.

How many races will I have to do before I get the 'go ahead'to race in the cat I am supposed to?

Hell, at the Fast One, Eldron and I were the front pace setters in R from the get go...but, somehow somebody in our cat came in with the licensed guys? How'd he do that? He did not start in our batch, and clearly was still credited with the fastest time even though looking at the results you can see where he started.

 

I know this is a rant from my side, and yes if I ride enough races I will shoot up the seeding ladder...but when faced with the thought of having to race in cats like this for a while is just the most unappealing thought.

 

Ok, heffie fit over with....

[/quote']

Point taken Owl, I do however disagree, and will chat when we see again, I can mention names and examples here, but will rather chat to you man to man!!

Come with me to the next race, and I'll show you what I mean.

[Nancy Drew]

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Nancy Drew2009-06-03 08:22:32

[mallo]

Guys

 

 

 

Please use rationale when reading into ability seeding:

 

Example:

 

All local races based on Ability seeding- Rider with seeding index 0.0- 1.0 based in CAT A: 1.1- 5.0 CAT B and so on

 

 

 

So when you enter a race you get seeded in the CAT your index shows, no problem here because you actually deseve been there.

 

 

 

For teams it means you will be of same or similar riding ability to be in the team, not because you the financier or sponsor with an index of 20 .

 

 

 

The provincial and national bodies will then be able to set criteria based on seeding ability for qualification in the various age categories example

 

 

 

Elite 0.0 to 1.3

 

vets 30+ 1.5-3.5

 

vts 35+ 3.5-5.0 and so on

 

 

 

One thing that needs to change urgently at national level is the manner in which one qualifies to ride SA's. This is supposed to be the flagship event on the annual calendar not a sideshow where anybody can come and participate.     

[scotty]

CSA/Prov/Clubs should apply stricter seeding criteria. It should be seen as an achievement to get a full lic not a handout.

[Canaris]

all these rules, regulations, and instructions.  For every suggestion there needs to be an official to police it.  Each official costs more money to the enterants of a race. 

Rather push the administrative load back onto the riders.  UCI rules state that a race constitutes a limited number of riders (about 200) which must be organised into teams.  Teams are ranked by the riders performance.  (ie points for finishing in the top places).

If we follow this approach then clubs/teams will manage the riders "seedings", and organisers will manage team rankings and placings in each starting groups.  Obviously as Mallo claims some teams will insert the sponsors son into the team , but his lack of performance will be a disadvantage that the team will have to bear. 

 

When applied there will be a trickle down affect to the a,b,c and D "groups" to organise in the same manner.

 

Last comment, as far as I can understand, the licence is for the guy that WANTS to RACE or the win, and the cyclo-sport or PPA is for fun riders that cycle for recreation and fitness and not for "Glory" or seeding ext. so, If you are wanting to race get a licence.

[porky]

CSA/Prov/Clubs should apply stricter seeding criteria. It should be seen as an achievement to get a full lic not a handout.

 

I am with your line of thinking, but I dont see what differance it makes.?

 

If you are not good enough, you will get left behind, so in the end the good riders will always be winning - generally the cream rises to the top.

 

Same at the SA's, it dos'nt matter if there are 200 entrants, the best man will win and the rest will come in 30 minutes later. As long as they dont bother anyone, (and I cant see how they do) I would say, why is it an issue?

 

I think its differant if it were athletics or gymnastics for obvious reasons, space on tracks, time etc, but this is on muncipal roads able to carry hundreds of entrants, theres no harm in having a few extra. 

 

Actually I would say they even serve a purpose by contributing to the event financially, plumping the start group a bit more and perhaps adding a bit of character, giveing folk more reason to go watch. 

 

Nothing more boring than a 10 man start group.

 

[mallo]

You wonder why there are accidents in the groups and who causes these. Most of the time it is the newbie or dunce that thinks they now what to do in the group(Sound familiar to the Cape guys).

 

 

 

I have ridden behind different groups at lots of races and seen some pathetic persons in bunches only to find out he/she is riding there because they can start earlier if the have a full license.

[scotty]

True Porky but on a road race stragglers could be a danger. Take riders starting in VA, get dropped, passed by VB, VC, VD, A, B,C, etc. I know sometimes you can have a bad race, but when you look at some of the riders in lic bunch they are either well below par or always have a bad race.

Same applies to the CGC prov champs, we rode out to watch them and some of them would have battled to hold onto C bunch in a road race

[Canaris]

You wonder why there are accidents in the groups and who causes these. Most of the time it is the newbie or dunce that thinks they now what to do in the group(Sound familiar to the Cape guys).

I have ridden behind different groups at lots of races and seen some pathetic persons in bunches only to find out he/she is riding there because they can start earlier if the have a full license.

 

it cannot be fun being dropped in the first 1km of a race.  But people are strange.

[Frosty]

 

CSA/Prov/Clubs should apply stricter seeding criteria. It should be seen as an achievement to get a full lic not a handout.

 

I am with your line of thinking' date=' but I dont see what differance it makes.?

 

If you are not good enough, you will get left behind, so in the end the good riders will always be winning - generally the cream rises to the top.

 

Same at the SA's, it dos'nt matter if there are 200 entrants, the best man will win and the rest will come in 30 minutes later. As long as they dont bother anyone, (and I cant see how they do) I would say, why is it an issue?

 

I think its differant if it were athletics or gymnastics for obvious reasons, space on tracks, time etc, but this is on muncipal roads able to carry hundreds of entrants, theres no harm in having a few extra. 

 

Actually I would say they even serve a purpose by contributing to the event financially, plumping the start group a bit more and perhaps adding a bit of character, giveing folk more reason to go watch. 

 

Nothing more boring than a 10 man start group.

[/quote']

For starters, there were 56 starters in Vet 35-39, and only 33 finishers. If strict UCI rules were applied, then only those inside 5% of the winner's time can be classified as finishers - 20 finished inside the 5% cutoff of 10 minutes 15 seconds after the winners - ride time of 03:35:09.

 

But we all know that the rules were not applied consistantly this past weekend. So no matter what rules you have in place, if they aren't consistantly enforced, you will always have loopholes for people to exploit.