29ers...here to stay or fade away?

[Flowta]

 

I'd still like to test ride a 29er' date=' so if anyone has a small 15-16" 29er lying around give me a call............but i do fear its going to be a bit funny with  those big wheels.....don't know how those fisher girls do it......

 

my 700x35c on the cross bike alreday feel like wagon wheels......

 

kiwi where's the 16" demo scandal

[/quote']

 

Do you still have your Peace?

 

If you do, try a 29er wheel in the front. It won't be completely a 29er but it will give you an idea as to how it rolls over things

 

[rock]

not sure if thats a good idea for the geometry, will throw things out some what.......

[Flowta]

1 to 1.5 degrees at the most

[Flowta]

If you want I can lend you my wheel sometime.

[GoLefty!!]

It will also throw out the trail figure which will change the handling somewhat. A trail corrected fork with be required to understand the full effect of a 29 front wheel.

[GoLefty!!]

I don't really want to get involved in a "which is better" debate.

From my own experience...

I come off a Cannondale Rush Carbon which is a great bike in anybodies books. It was under 11kg's and i didn't have the lightest wheels on the bike.

Now i ride a hard tail 29er. The bike is probably 2kg's heavier than the Rush i had.

I'm 6'4" and always felt like i was sitting "on top" of my 'Dale. The 29er just fits me better' date=' i feel more comfortable on it.

I'm a pretty average mountainbiker, will never be any good at it, i'm to big and heavy.

... but what i have found is that i climb better with the 29er. Where i used to struggle to keep my front wheel on the ground on very steep, technical climbs on the 'Dale, now i don't have that problem anymore.

I won't call myself technically good on a mtb either, but i'm not useless. On the 29er i decent faster because obstacles that used to slow me down does not anymore.

I ride more XC/Marathon type events and for that my bike is perfect, for me anyways. Yes i would like it if it was maybe a little lighter but i'm never going to win any races. Not going to break the bank because of it. What i use it for and the level of riding i do, i will never go back to 26" wheels.

Whether you race XC, do Trials, or All Mountain\DH is your thing, go with what will work best for you.

Give Burry, or any other top MTB'er a high end 29er, and they will still kill most people on the bike. At the end of the day there is no substitute for talent and class. He will beat most on a hypermarket special for that matter. Whether it has 26" or 29" inch wheels, it doesn't matter.
 


[/quote']

 

 

this is where Fishers marketing dept has won.

WHat is actuallymaking your bike suit you better is not really the bigger wheels but the longer wheelbase that the bigger wheels creates. the triangle created by your centre of gravity  and the two contact patches fornt and rear is what is maling the bike climb better. If you had a 26er with as long a wheel it would be just as stable and climb just as well. However, the proportions of the wheels in relation to the front will probably make it look a little odd, sort of like a HArley without an engine.

 

he 29er wheels allows for better proportions for larger frame sizes and also creates the required wheelbase without looking funny.

 

this is what most people feel when they ride a 29er, the stabilising effects of a longer wheel base.

 

650B still looks like it has better proportions for nearly all sizes of bikes.

 

 

In an ideal world, a size small would have a 26er wheel,

A medium and large would have a 650B wheel and

Xtra large and XXl would have 29er wheels

 

that would create the most sensible portfolio of bikes for people of all sizes and allow for all wheel systems to achieve decent penetration.

 

since Medium and large is where the majority of riders fall, 650B will still be the most popular size.

Even here it  is clear that 650B is most likely where the industry will land up, leaving 29er as a niche.

 

[_Daemon_]

 

 

 

this is where Fishers marketing dept has won.

WHat is actuallymaking your bike suit you better is not really the bigger wheels but the longer wheelbase that the bigger wheels creates. the triangle created by your centre of gravity  and the two contact patches fornt and rear is what is maling the bike climb better. If you had a 26er with as long a wheel it would be just as stable and climb just as well. However' date=' the proportions of the wheels in relation to the front will probably make it look a little odd, sort of like a HArley without an engine.

 

he 29er wheels allows for better proportions for larger frame sizes and also creates the required wheelbase without looking funny.

 

this is what most people feel when they ride a 29er, the stabilising effects of a longer wheel base.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Yes, but that's only part of the reason a 29er climbs better, then there is still the larger contact patch of the tyre, make climbing on loose stuff easier, an the better angle of attack of the larger wheels making it easier to get over stuff on a technical climb.

[_C50_]

The bottom line is, the bike suits me better, it fits me better. And i enjoy riding it. Whether it had 23", 26", or 29" wheels is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with anybodies marketing department.

 

I loved the Rush, i like the 29er more. It works for me. Like i said, ride what you feel comfortable with and what works for you.

 

I really don't care if people think the bike looks funny/odd with the big hoops. In fact, i actually kinda like the way it looks.

 

[pine15]

I recon it'll pass over, doesn't quite look rite and doesn't seem to be helping some of the top guys to much but lets wait and c

[GoLefty!!]

 

 

this is where Fishers marketing dept has won.

WHat is actuallymaking your bike suit you better is not really the bigger wheels but the longer wheelbase that the bigger wheels creates. the triangle created by your centre of gravity  and the two contact patches fornt and rear is what is maling the bike climb better. If you had a 26er with as long a wheel it would be just as stable and climb just as well. However' date=' the proportions of the wheels in relation to the front will probably make it look a little odd, sort of like a HArley without an engine.

 

he 29er wheels allows for better proportions for larger frame sizes and also creates the required wheelbase without looking funny.

 

this is what most people feel when they ride a 29er, the stabilising effects of a longer wheel base.

 

 

[/quote']

Yes, but that's only part of the reason a 29er climbs better, then there is still the larger contact patch of the tyre, make climbing on loose stuff easier, an the better angle of attack of the larger wheels making it easier to get over stuff on a technical climb.

 

the larger contact patch onlyhelps if the tyre is able to conform to the trail better. IF the tyre is run at higher pressure then the benefit is negliable.

 

lso the contact patch is further behind the vertical line of action of the riders weight. A 26er can be built to achieve the same thing. the size of teh wheel has stuffall to do with it. It just about vanity; A bigger hoop makes the bike look better with longer stays.

[AndreZA]

What Fisher is also using as a selling tool is that they've got the fork manufacturers to make them special forks so to tuck the front wheel back in so that the bike feels like a 26". What is the point of that?

[techguy]

the point of that is to make the bike handle like the bike is riding itself.

Ride a fisher and it'll all come to you. I had a fisher hi fi and I still rekin its one of the best handling bikes I've ridden. Specialized have done the same thing with their proprietry forks now cuz I rode a stumpjumper s works and it felt exactly the same...

 

Go to www.fisherbikes.com and the whole genesis2 geometry is explained...

[Johan Bornman]

What Fisher is also using as a selling tool is that they've got the fork manufacturers to make them special forks so to tuck the front wheel back in so that the bike feels like a 26". What is the point of that?

 

This is because two bikes with the same fork, the one having 29er wheels and the other 26 inchers, will handle differently. If the trail (fork offset or, how far the stanchions are ahead of the steerer tube) was designed for a 26 inch wheel, it will be larger with a bigger wheel. The effect is that when you stand and pedal, the one with the larger offset feels more unstable. On small differences it cannot be noticed whilst seated, only when standing.

 

This latter subtelty is what bike magazine reviewers don't understand. They'll wax lyrical about this or that angle and use words like relaxed, twitchy etc without knowing where the difference really comes in and under what conditions it can be felt.

 

 

So, the point of the modified trail on GF bikes is to make the 29er more stable when standing and pedaling.

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

 

 

this is where Fishers marketing dept has won.

WHat is actuallymaking your bike suit you better is not really the bigger wheels but the longer wheelbase that the bigger wheels creates. the triangle created by your centre of gravity  and the two contact patches fornt and rear is what is maling the bike climb better. If you had a 26er with as long a wheel it would be just as stable and climb just as well. However' date=' the proportions of the wheels in relation to the front will probably make it look a little odd, sort of like a HArley without an engine.

 

he 29er wheels allows for better proportions for larger frame sizes and also creates the required wheelbase without looking funny.

 

this is what most people feel when they ride a 29er, the stabilising effects of a longer wheel base.

 

 

[/quote']

Yes, but that's only part of the reason a 29er climbs better, then there is still the larger contact patch of the tyre, make climbing on loose stuff easier, an the better angle of attack of the larger wheels making it easier to get over stuff on a technical climb.

 

the larger contact patch onlyhelps if the tyre is able to conform to the trail better. IF the tyre is run at higher pressure then the benefit is negliable.

 

lso the contact patch is further behind the vertical line of action of the riders weight. A 26er can be built to achieve the same thing. the size of teh wheel has stuffall to do with it. It just about vanity; A bigger hoop makes the bike look better with longer stays.

 

Everyone talks about a larger contact patch but I am yet to see a calculation or measurement of the said larger patch.

 

My guess is that it is in the order of 1% but I am willing to measure it. It is a fairly easy procedure involving some paint, a clean sheet of paper and a constant pressure and load. 

 

If anyone has both a 29er and 26 er and are willing to partake in the experiment, contact me, I'd like to put his story to rest for once and all.

 

Insofar climbing, and the problem described above with the bike lifting its front wheel, the biggest improvement comes from lengthening the chainstays, for reasons Lefty explained.

 

Lots of bike magazine writers will harp on about bikes that climb better because of shorter chainstays, but they don't answer my e-mail when I ask them to explain.

 

 

[techguy]

the whole idea with Fishers genesis geometry is to make the bike stable at high speed by having a relaxed (68-69deg) head angle but making the bike corner well at slow speed by reducing the trail by moving the top of thr fork forward...and it works!

[Eldron]

My 2c....

 

In a perfect world every mtb frame size would have a different size wheel (as someone stated earlier).

 

A 5 foot nothing rider and a 6 foot something rider should not be riding the same size wheel.

 

From personal experience - I'm a marketing sceptic - I don't do carbon bling, titanium marketing etc but after riding a Niner Air 29er I squeeled like a litte girl. Like someone else said - it felt like I was riding "in" the bike rather than "on" the bike. I've always felt "top heavy" on a 26" bike.

 

Whether it be the wheel base, the bigger wheels, the slacker frame angles is irrelevent really - I feel braver & more in control on my 29er. After racing a 26" bike I would feel broken and battered - after racing the 29er I would feel tired - much better!

 

Personally I would never go back.

 

650B sounds like a compromise to me - make the wheel slightly bigger for some benefits but then limit the benfits so people can add it to their current bikes without buying a new frame and shock. I disagree - if you're going to change something start from scratch - don't compromise.

 

29er all the way.