Lets compare LBS to CRC

[Andyr249]

I bought a new saddle from CRC last year. More than R1k less after SARS' share than a LBS and none of them had stock. I think the problem comes in with distributors. They hike up the prices and in turn the LBS has to. If the LBS' could get their stock directly from the manufacturers then the cost would be much cheaper and we could buy from our LBS'. At the end of the day it is the distributors which win.

[Capricorn]

i tend to agree with your sentiment ANdyr. Twice now, i've been stiffed when trying to purchase from the LBS, and deliberately chose them above CRC even though the price was a couple of hundred rands more. What did I get in ?return? A bullsh*t approach by the distributor when dealing with his own clients, the LBS. Unfortunately, I asked for my monies back as an 8 week delivery time is totally unacceptable. I wanted new rims as well, but again I had to stiff the same LBS because it was the same distributor.

 

Maybe the market here is just small enough that we will not, in the near or medium term, see better prices. I dont want to make excuses for some greedy bar stewards out tehre, but price is king and therefore CRC rules.

[madmarc]

I've said often before on the Hub. The markets and way we do business has changed. The age old system of distributors with sole agencies selling on to local resellers just doesn't make business sense anymore. The world market has become such a small very competitive place with the electronic age & the internet.

None have reacted to protect their business futures, they simply carry on with what they think they know best. They don't know and don't care how much business they lose because of their very old fashion business plans.

 

If i had a business like this i would:

Have online shop to sell direct to end user.

Rent space in LBS and place my product stand on consignment, with 1 invoice / month for stock sold with a % cut on sales for the LBS.

Allow cycling clubs to buy direct from me on a COD basis with a kickback to the club kitty. Free shipping for bigger orders (like CRC)

 

We need LBS - sure we do but who wants them as a customer when they never stock your product and only order when a cyclist walks in and wants something, Then they get paid in cash and string out the supplier for 60 days.

 

Local agents are losing millions every year to the likes of CWC, CRC, Total cycling etc. becuase theses guys are in the loop and alwasy 1 step ahead.

 

[DownhillingKing]

The thing is is when your LBS finds out you been ordering from CRC your next service is going to cost you an extra R500 or so

[Capricorn]

oh.. so they are extortionists as well (again, putting BS into LBS). then i guess i pull the lazy finger and learn to do as much as i can myself. Extortion turned into a laughable case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

 

but Madmarc: i tend to agree that in general, it appears the LBS' are lagging behind terrible when it comes to grabbing the concept of eCommerce. They think that just having a webpage (which hardly qualifies as a webpage even in the web 1.0 context because it barely has any useful content besides the now standard Contact Us link), qualifies as being too hip 2B square.

The problem might not just be the LBS. it's more than likely the lethargic nature of the lazyass agents and distributors whose distribution model cant grasp the concept of ecommerce negating any efforts on behalf the LBS to simply progress.

Hell, the LBS doesnt even have to go all ecommercey if the prices were more competitive. I would luv to know what the markups up and down the channel, and if good prices are ontingent upon bulk purchases with associated bulk discounts, why has no one here moved in that direction?

this subject has been thrashed to death. It's a pitiful situation. LBS and entities such as CRC all have their place. But the horrible truth is, the LBS will become redundant, or the majority of them will faceplant, and it probably never was CRCs intent. More a case on behalf of the LBS of "head in the sand means ass in the air". You gonna get reamed.

[Guest Big H]

We just landed an order from CRC

 

Or

 

Shimano HG93 (XT) chain 9spd CRC landed R 186. 21 CWC R 299.00 - 37.7% cheaper

 

I find your signature in relation to your purchase a little amusing - you said what??

 

Image the torture the poor man is going through!!!!!!!! Riding a MTB with equipped with Shimano, experiencing the quietness, smoothness and RELIABILITY knowing that the only time when kempekkernoglia tried to make a MTB groupset it was a flop as well!!!!!!!!!!

[GoLefty!!]

Comparing CRC to local bike shops is hugely unfair.

 

the problem is that CRC buys direct from the manufacturer as OEM and then sells on to the general public at essentially wholesale price.

 

CRC also does massive bulk because they ship globally. Thet were smart enough to see the potential of e-shopping way back in 2001 when they opened their site.

Our local distributors can't compete either because they are bringing in one or two container loads per 6 weeks, CRC does one container every 2 -4 days!!

 

Sure they do us a favour by providing a base level price that we SAFFA's are willing to forego our LBS in favour of CRC.

 

Sure we're saving sometimes but its to the detrment of our local industry.

Every ZAR spent at CRC is a ZAR out of SA.

 

recently I was at cape mail to collect a shipment of goods and I asked what the 10% duty was for. they said its up to customs if they want to charge duty or not. I was a little annoyed and voiced this. Cool and clam the official took my inthe warehouse where he showed me racks and racks of CRC boxes awaiting collection and delivery. Estimated value R4million rand.

and that was one month.

 

Now if we spent that volume at home would our prices be more reasonable?

 

An Example, the local SRAM distributor negotiated a better deal for SA bound goods and handed that discount to the retailer. now does the retailer hand that discount over to you...?

 

Some do, others get greedy.

 

CRC is wonderful shop, great blokes but i do feel that my money needs to be spent here.

 

[Capricorn]

 

GoLefty: pretty rational argument, except for the part where you dont mention CRC had to start from small as well. THey didnt just appear. Same with the internet and teh business model CRC employs. All these things did not happen over night. yet here we sit, little choice in product, price and lead times.

?

But I fully agree with you: we free to spend/waste our money as we see fit.

Capricorn2010-02-11 15:03:38

[Guest Big H]

Comparing CRC to local bike shops is hugely unfair.

the problem is that CRC buys direct from the manufacturer as OEM and then sells on to the general public at essentially wholesale price. Good for my pocket

CRC also does massive bulk because they ship globally. Thet were smart enough to see the potential of e-shopping way back in 2001 when they opened their site. Good for them!!!!!

 

Our local distributors can't compete either because they are bringing in one or two container loads per 6 weeks' date=' CRC does one container every 2 -4 days!! For sure...... that is why they overcharge

Sure they do us a favour by providing a base level price that we SAFFA's are willing to forego our LBS in favour of CRC. Yes!!!!!

Sure we're saving sometimes but its to the detrment of our local industry.
Every ZAR spent at CRC is a ZAR out of SA. Who cares!!!!!!

recently I was at cape mail to collect a shipment of goods and I asked what the 10% duty was for. they said its up to customs if they want to charge duty or not. I was a little annoyed and voiced this. Cool and clam the official took my inthe warehouse where he showed me racks and racks of CRC boxes awaiting collection and delivery. Estimated value R4million rand.
and that was one month. Wow amazing !!!!!!!!! And all that just by word of mouth and amazing efficient service and customer support!!!!!!CRC does not even advertise in RSA!!!!!!!!!! The local yokels can learn form that!!!!!!!
Now if we spent that volume at home would our prices be more reasonable? No ...... the bike shops will just put more in their pockets

An Example, the local SRAM distributor negotiated a better deal for SA bound goods and handed that discount to the retailer. now does the retailer hand that discount over to you...? There ....... you have answered yourself...... negating all the weak examples above!!!!!!! Typical mentality!!!!!!!

Some do, others get greedy. Rotten apple idea comes to mind!!!!!!!

CRC is wonderful shop, great blokes but i do feel that my money needs to be spent here. Your money..... waste it where you want to!!!!!!!
[/quote']

[Guttersnipe]

I'm surprised someone doesn't open up a business as an order aggregator and after sales service provider for CRC locally. A brave shop could even do it, with a workshop attached.

 

Pick up your shipment there, return warranty items, get maintenance work done if you can't do it yourself. Seems like a better business model than fighting with distributors over stock, pricing, terms, and losing any customer who knows how to turn a wrench to CRC.

 

Crucially, capital requirements would be very low, as you wouldn't be carrying much stock.

 

If someone did that, it would peel away a large remaining slice of the customer base for your lbs - people who are nervous about working on their bikes, or who are worried about after-sales service.

[GoLefty!!]

 

GoLefty: pretty rational argument' date=' except for the part where you dont mention CRC had to start from small as well. THey didnt just appear. Same with the internet and teh business model CRC employs. All these things did not happen over night. yet here we sit, little choice in product, price and lead times.

 

But I fully agree with you: we free to spend/waste our money as we see fit.

[/quote']

 

 

well yes CRC did start out as a little bike shop and then they thought they could get an edge by registering as an OEM. In fact when they started they were bringing in unheard of brands and buying parts kits for complete bikes and selling that.

Then they realised they could break up the parts kits and flog that online globally. Our distributors could offer a similar deal to the retailers which would lower prices. But again, will your LBS carry that saving over to you?

 

Local distributors could offer a similar model to retailers.

or simply local distributors could start seling direct, in effect becoming CRC's themselves.

 

But if we compare our LBS prices to LBS in Europe, our guys pricing is actually pretty much in line with the global retailer model.

and trust me, its not just local retailers that are feeling the pinch from CRC. Shimano is very much aware of the hurt CRC is creating but there is little they can do about it without falling foul of European Competition laws. CRC found a loop hole and exploited it. Kudos to them.

 

So if the market swingings toward CRC and only 10% of customers now buy from an LBS, where would you go to buy your bike?

Where would you go for a bike fit?

where would you go for a suspension service?

Where would you go to handle warranties?

 

Open a CRC service agency in SA? You mean like the current distributors?

Thats not a good business. How often does something go wrong. If a shipment is damaged in shipping then the shipping company is liable and hence you insurance with them for damaged goods. They replace it for you with CRC.

at the end of the day, a decent balance needs to be found between survival of the LBS and just getting part as cheaply as possible.

 

 certainly do not agree with being ripped off, hence I don't ride campagnolo. but I would like to see the shop down the road remain down the road for another 20yrs....

 

[Bolt]

Interesting developments ahead - was at a LBS in Durbs yesterday was told by owner that they will soon be forced to shut their doors - CRC is killing them !

 

A top mechanic (and former bike shop owner)has gone down the route of opening a service centre only - no retail - he will pick your bike up from your house - service , even build or fit parts from CRC etc... and deliver back to you - and nobody touches your bike except him - you know you are getting a quality service! HOWEVER it did not tale long for likes of the LAB to phone all the distributors and ask them to stop suppying him which they duly did - no problem he orders over the net - ????? go figure ?

Bolt2010-02-12 00:44:56

[GoLefty!!]

when it comes to the lab and the others involved in "that" incident, i vote with my wallet and support the little guy

[scotty]

HOWEVER it did not tale long for likes of the LAB to phone all the distributors and ask them to stop suppying him which they duly did - no problem he orders over the net - ????? go figure ?

 

Thats quite a serious accusation, particulary in light of the price fixing allegations previously

 

My main LBS seems to be doing OK, every time i go in there they have new stock and line from entry level to top .

[E1A104]

GoLefty: pretty rational argument' date=' except for the part where you dont mention CRC had to start from small as well. THey didnt just appear. Same with the internet and teh business model CRC employs. All these things did not happen over night. yet here we sit, little choice in product, price and lead times.  

But I fully agree with you: we free to spend/waste our money as we see fit.

[/quote']


well yes CRC did start out as a little bike shop and then they thought they could get an edge by registering as an OEM. In fact when they started they were bringing in unheard of brands and buying parts kits for complete bikes and selling that.
Then they realised they could break up the parts kits and flog that online globally. Our distributors could offer a similar deal to the retailers which would lower prices. But again, will your LBS carry that saving over to you?

Local distributors could offer a similar model to retailers.
or simply local distributors could start seling direct, in effect becoming CRC's themselves.

But if we compare our LBS prices to LBS in Europe, our guys pricing is actually pretty much in line with the global retailer model.

and trust me, its not just local retailers that are feeling the pinch from CRC. Shimano is very much aware of the hurt CRC is creating but there is little they can do about it without falling foul of European Competition laws. CRC found a loop hole and exploited it. Kudos to them.

So if the market swingings toward CRC and only 10% of customers now buy from an LBS, where would you go to buy your bike?
Where would you go for a bike fit?
where would you go for a suspension service?
Where would you go to handle warranties?

Open a CRC service agency in SA? You mean like the current distributors?
Thats not a good business. How often does something go wrong. If a shipment is damaged in shipping then the shipping company is liable and hence you insurance with them for damaged goods. They replace it for you with CRC.
at the end of the day, a decent balance needs to be found between survival of the LBS and just getting part as cheaply as possible.

 certainly do not agree with being ripped off, hence I don't ride campagnolo. but I would like to see the shop down the road remain down the road for another 20yrs....

 

Thank goodness for the European competition laws, if not for them shimano would be ripping you off as well and then what would you ride, SRAM?

[Andyr249]

What needs to happen is that the LBS needs to start getting stock directly from the manufacturers. That way the middle price increased is cut out and the products in the hands of the consumer will be cheaper. The various LBS' could even do what we are doing but obviously on a larger scale. Look how we club together for CRC orders and then split the costs. Can't LBS A, LBS B and LBS C get together and place and order for certain supplies. Then they order more so the costs would be reduced. Then they just split whatever costs there are.