Lets compare LBS to CRC

[Jules]

Sure we're saving sometimes but its to the detrment of our local industry. Every ZAR spent at CRC is a ZAR out of SA.

 

 

 

 

GoLefty, we're talking about imported goods, so the majority of the value (in cases where the total mark up is less than 100%) leaves the country regardless.

 

 

 

Your argument also fails to mention the benefit of lower prices at CRC. This is a tangible benefit felt by ordinary cyclists. It goes straight to their bottom line, and is likely to remain in the SA economy.

 

 

 

I'll give you a simple example. At breakfast today Flex told me his colleague was looking at buying a pair of cycling shoes. He went to the Lab and was looking at a pair for R1800. Nothing fancy, no carbon sole, etc. Flex told him we're putting a CRC order in this week, why don't you add a pair of shoes to the order. He put a pair of Shimano carbon soled shoes on for about R650. Sure there will be duties and VAT to pay, but it'll still be much cheaper than the LBS.

 

 

 

Bored girl recently bought a pair of gloves off CRC for R150. LBS price was R450.

[GoLefty!!]

Ok lets look at it this way.

 

supplier buys goods at lets say ZAR 1-00.

 

he buys 1000 units so it's zAR1000-00 leaving SA.

 

He adds value to that goods and sell it on to a retailer  for R2000-00

 

so theres an extra ZAR 1000 moving withing the SA economy.

The retailer then adds value to the goods and adds another ZAR1000 on top of the ZAR 1000 he paid of it.

So now we have ZAR2000-00 moving in the economy.

 

but even with the ZAR1000 that left, theres still ZAR 1000-00 that was made internally.

 

if the end user now importd directly, it s a nett loss of R1000-00

 

if there is any saving, does the end customer spend that saving on made in SA goods or do they spend it on other imported goods i.e more money leaving our economy?

 

I recall that Australia, the land so loved by disgruntled Saffa's, had a Buy Australian campaign where people where asked to buy Australian goods to help local industry's get up and running. It worked, of coursethen later they dropped that and imports flooded in and today they have almost zero local industry.

 

So yes I see your point on the savings that individuals can achieve by purchasing from CRC and I have no problem with that. The problem come in when local shops need to close because an offshore wholesaler is putting them out of business.

 

lets face it, we all want the best we can afford. If we can;t afford it locally we will buy it for less from abroad. The shame is that it has reached a point where local shops are feeling the hurt and through no fault of theirs or the distributors (generally - there are one or two who pull the hens teeth). its just a function of the size of the market, need for prestige etc.

 

i'll qualify that last statement; if you have R1000 to spend, will spend it on an SLX crank from your LBS or an XT crank from CRC....?

 

[Jules]

The point is the buyer still has money in his pocket that he wouldn't have if he bought local. That has to be a good thing.

 

 

 

When it comes to "buy local" campaigns and other protectionist policies, I stand with the great English economist David Ricardo.

 

 

 

I don't enter into nonsensical economic transactions for the sake of some fake sense of patriotism, which is why I don't pay "car guards" and why I don't buy goods from the LBS.

[wildroadie]

The scary part is you all buy from CRC because they offer a good postage service to SA when in actual fact they aren't always the cheapest UK/European reseller.  SA could learn a lot from UK's competition regulations.  Even the LBS will try and beat online prices.  It's always nicer to deal with a person than a PC/Mac and even though almost every LBS in England has an online service too sometimes you get a bit more than you expected going in to the store.  Pity SA has many many other things to worry about that they can't get this right.

[Oertel]

Buying from CRC is not always moonshine and roses. I bought a set of XT disc brakes. It came without hoses, mineral oil, hose fittings or rotors. just levers and callipers. After I had to buy all those essentials extra it cost me more than it would have been local. If you buy these brakes locally you get everything included.

[Jules]

Agreed it's not always roses, but the description should state if it includes hoses etc. I've bought two sets of disc brakes from CRC and they have both come pre bled with hoses.

 

 

 

You will usually have to cut the back hose (unless you ride a tandem). JB will do this for you at a very reasonable price. He has no problem working on CRC stuff, because he doesn't have the vested interests that a bike shop does. I find the CRC/JB combination provides me with much greater satisfaction than the average LBS. Jules2010-02-12 03:26:01

[GoLefty!!]

 

The point is the buyer still has money in his pocket that he wouldn't have if he bought local. That has to be a good thing.

 

 

 

When it comes to "buy local" campaigns and other protectionist policies' date=' I stand with the great English economist David Ricardo.

 

 

 

I don't enter into nonsensical economic transactions for the sake of some fake sense of patriotism, which is why I don't pay "car guards" and why I don't buy goods from the LBS. [/quote']

 

 

i disagree, people do not behave like you say.

A cyclist will spend what he/she has budgeted to spend and will look for the most prestigious component they can find within that budget.

 

fake sense of patritism or not, economics is economics and sure competition helps to improve things but there needs to be a balance.

 

When the local industry is dead, and theres no one to sponsor the races, or organise the clubs, who is going to be blamed?

The "why didn't the government step in " arguements will fuel forums like these.

 

would I buy from guys like Icycling or CWC, Darn right I will. They spend money overseas and add value and we buy it here so at least a portion of the cash stays here.

Do I buy from CRC, of course but only items I can't find  locally or have too long a lead time through my LBS due to stock issues. Then CRC is convenient.

But I do recognise that without my LBS and others like them, we won't have a cycling industry, therefore fewer jobs. Its got f**kall to do with patriotism and more to do with seeing the bigger picture beyond me me me.

 

 

 

[Andyr249]

The problem is that there are too many links in the chain and each link adds on his bit. For example:

A buys X from manufacturer at R1 and sells it to B for R2. B sells it to C for R3. You could go on and on making the chain longer and the price higher. If C can buy X from A for R2 then why shouldn't he? He saves R1 and in this example 100%.

It could also be a case of trying to sell a few at a higher price rather than more at a slightly lower price. Maybe if the distributors cut their price then the LBS could also and the consumer would pay less. Then more goods could get sold which would ultimately end up with more money for the LBS and distributor.

[bored girl]

Buying from CRC is not always moonshine and roses. I bought a set of XT disc brakes. It came without hoses' date=' mineral oil, hose fittings or rotors. just levers and callipers. After I had to buy all those essentials extra it cost me more than it would have been local. If you buy these brakes locally you get everything included.[/quote']

 

 

 

But that's why you should do research beforehand...

[tmstiles]

 

Ok lets look at it this way.

 

supplier buys goods at lets say ZAR 1-00.

 

he buys 1000 units so it's zAR1000-00 leaving SA.

 

He adds value to that goods and sell it on to a retailer  for R2000-00

 

so theres an extra ZAR 1000 moving withing the SA economy.

The retailer then adds value to the goods and adds another ZAR1000 on top of the ZAR 1000 he paid of it.

So now we have ZAR2000-00 moving in the economy.

 

but even with the ZAR1000 that left' date=' theres still ZAR 1000-00 that was made internally.

 

if the end user now importd directly, it s a nett loss of R1000-00

 

if there is any saving, does the end customer spend that saving on made in SA goods or do they spend it on other imported goods i.e more money leaving our economy?

 

I recall that Australia, the land so loved by disgruntled Saffa's, had a Buy Australian campaign where people where asked to buy Australian goods to help local industry's get up and running. It worked, of coursethen later they dropped that and imports flooded in and today they have almost zero local industry.

 

So yes I see your point on the savings that individuals can achieve by purchasing from CRC and I have no problem with that. The problem come in when local shops need to close because an offshore wholesaler is putting them out of business.

 

lets face it, we all want the best we can afford. If we can;t afford it locally we will buy it for less from abroad. The shame is that it has reached a point where local shops are feeling the hurt and through no fault of theirs or the distributors (generally - there are one or two who pull the hens teeth). its just a function of the size of the market, need for prestige etc.

 

i'll qualify that last statement; if you have R1000 to spend, will spend it on an SLX crank from your LBS or an XT crank from CRC....?

 

[/quote']

 

The problem is that there is no value added on.  If a supplier buys say a set of pedals, what value does he add to the pedals when he sells it on to the retailer.  Its still the same item, has the same warranty, can't see whats different?  So why must i pay all the middleman for essentially just handling the item for me.

 

Now if a LBS were to offer extra value, say offering to fit them, or maintain them for me for a year then i might look at purchasing locally.  Otherwise as has been said its my money why should i enrich someone else just to buy locally.

 

On another point, there has been a number of times when i have gone to a LBS and not been able to get what i wanted as they have to order it.  However waiting up to two weeks to get something from JHB is just not on, especially when i can get it from CRC in a week or less

 

 

 

 

[Jules]

 

When the local industry is dead' date=' and theres no one to sponsor the races, or organise the clubs, who is going to be blamed?The "why didn't the government step in " arguements will fuel forums like these.would I buy from guys like Icycling or CWC, Darn right I will. They spend money overseas and add value and we buy it here so at least a portion of the cash stays here.Do I buy from CRC, of course but only items I can't find? locally or have too long a lead time through my LBS due to stock issues. Then CRC is convenient. But I do recognise that without my LBS and others like them, we won't have a cycling industry, therefore fewer jobs. Its got f**kall to do with patriotism and more to do with seeing the bigger picture beyond me me me.[/quote']

 

 

 

Come on GoLefty, you don't really believe that, do you?

 

 

 

The biggest sponsors of events have nothing to do with the cycling industry. They are in phones and banks, namely MTN and Absa.

 

 

 

Good operators will never die. Someone said their LBS is being killed by CRC. I ride with the okes from the LBS I sometimes use and they tell me that they are having record days - 120 customers in one day. The reason? They offer great service.

 

 

 

And look at the bike shops that go to the events like Sani2C and Epic. Sure, the prices are expensive, but people pay them with a smile, because CRC was not there to save their race with a spare derailleur.

 

 

 

Jules2010-02-12 03:41:00

[GoLefty!!]

the distributors that I know have a lower mark up than the retailers they supply....

[Super_mil]

Yup, I'm all for the CRC option. Our last order got pulled by customs but with Ngala's help, sorting out the clearance certificate, it was fairly smooth although the collection from the airport mail centre is a ball ache.

 

 

 

For most items it does not make economic sense to support the local guys (unfortunately).

 

 

 

I've also had this discussion with a couple guys from LBSs and some take it in their stride while others get fairly defensive saying you're killing the market. Problem is if I'm saving 30-40% on a piece of decent kit from a supplier who puts customers first (and CRC have always gone way beyond expectation on numerous occasions) I know where I'll spend my money.

 

 

 

CRC rocks!!!

[Andyr249]

the distributors that I know have a lower mark up than the retailers they supply....

 

But there is still a mark up! They also have to make money. Every Rand they mark it up is a Rand or more that consumers have to pay.

[CAAD4]

 

"I find the CRC/JB combination provides me with much greater satisfaction than the average LBS." 

 

It makes such sense Jules. Are bikes shops really saying that they are having to close because of CRC? What the hell are they doing to retain their customers? Why do you use Prof JB? Because he has seen a gap in this market for specialised, high quality, technical service and support at a fair price.

 

It's very easy to blame CRC. The threads here talking about bad service from lbs are endless.. Of course there are those that are offering a good service too, but somehow they are in the minority. 

[Icycling]

As I have made many comments on this topic in the past. Please remember for each rands spent our of RSA well certainly in the cycling circles it probably equates to 1 less R1 spent in the local economy. So directly you may be saving 50c but indirectly you are eroding the RSA economy - which in turn may cost even you your job if you work in RSA a part of the RSA economy and certainly reduces the TAX collection in RSA, which is I think, the government is the biggest employer in this country. Jobs get lost crime increase - that's been shown.

 

 

 

It was the US presidents mission last year to get the US people spending again to boast the US economy. But if their spent all their money in China for argument sake it would have nothing for the US economy!