Traffic lights - its time to stop

[tabasco]

if you stop at red lights in Joburg chances are they will steal your bike before it turns green

[Guest coenie]

 

Taps- get real....how many people drive without safety belts...?

 

When last did you hubbers chat on your phone while driving?

How many speeding fines do you get a year.....

 

And you tell me I have the wrong attitude...it is called being honest.....

Oh I see' date=' that makes it alright then?

[/quote']

 

So you are a hypocrite....you say one thing and do another....

 

I say what I do and do what I say and you wanna blast me for that? Come-on admit it-you skip a light when it is safe....no-one is around etc?

 

[Guest coenie]

 

I agree with Coenie- when they give me a lane to cycle in ' date='I'll gladly pay for a bicycle licence and then also stop properly! But when a car or taxi turns in front of another at a traffic light, we will be the first sitting ducks to be hit![/quote']

 

Yipee, anther honest person......

 

[Guest coenie]

 

if you stop at red lights in Joburg chances are they will steal your bike before it turns green

 

LOLOL

 

[Taps]

I'm skipping out of here . Let's agree to disagree!!

[Guest coenie]

 

I'm skipping out of here . Let's agree to disagree!!

 

 

[udxcob]

What are traffic lights?

[firewolf]

Think like a car driver.  Be like a car driver.  Hope to not get hit by a car driver.

[Lucky Luke.]

 

I'm with you Coenie. I stop when I need to and yield to anybody with the right of way in any situation, car, pedestrian, cyclist, segway or double decker bus. But there is nothing to be gained and much to be lost by stopping unnecessarily at every single red robot and stop street.

 

Visit cities like London and look at how the bike couriers ride. Many of them do upwards of 500km a week for most of the year on some of the busiest streets on earth. Their objective is to travel quickly, efficiently and to stay alive. They do not stop at red lights when they don't need to and they also do not cause accidents with this behavior.

 

lukehardiman2010-05-19 11:09:33

[Lucky Luke.]

I think Lance Burger from the PPA and possibly also guys like Andrew Wheeldon from BEN would agree with this. Here is Lance speaking in a doc that comments on SA traffic laws:

 

17.    In many instances it is safer to ride to the front of a line of cars waiting at a traffic light (as happens with traffic marking in London), proceed through the red traffic light when it is safe and away of the motor cars. In that way the cyclist is ahead of the motor vehicles where they can be seen.

18.    Cyclists instinctively know this, and for that reason some of them ignore red traffic lights and stop signs, regardless that it is illegal.

19.    The provision requiring cyclists to stop at stop signs and the provision prohibiting cyclists from proceeding through a red traffic light after stopping are unnecessary and do not benefit either motor vehicles or cyclists. Doing away with these provisions will enhance the efficiency of bicycles as a means of transportation without making it less safe (in practice, making it more safe for cyclists).

 

[Guest coenie]

Thanks lukehardiman, as least someone understands what I am on about....

['Dale]

Argh, the discipline it takes to come to a full stop. That is so tough....

 

 

 

I kinda do a yield-like move if there are motorists.

 

And, a little little yield when no one is around.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

It does reflect respect for the road and its laws.

 

 

 

Let me think about a new resolution for the new road season starting in Spring!

 

Gonna take a lot of will power.

 

 

 

[Woofie]

I commute alot.

 

& I agree with the statements from Lance Burger.

 

 

 

Robots, if I am turning left (alongside of traffic) I will slow down and slip into the traffic.

 

It is far safer for me as I can then get ahead of the cars trying to turn the corner. People corner terribly and if I have to contend for the 10 cm of tarmat around the bend I am going to come short.

 

 

 

Crossing an intersection however is a totally different story. If I can see for miles that no car is coming I sometimes, after stopping will edge my way across slowly to once again get away from the trucks etc.

 

But if there is any uncertainty I just wait it out.

 

Each stop street is unique.

 

Certain of them in parklands / table view cars dont even seem to know they exist, if I am crossing one of these (with the flow of the traffic) I will proceed carefully if I am being supported by a 2 ton escort.

 

 

 

If the cars are stopping. I stop.

 

 

 

So the way I see it is.

 

 

 

Traffic lights, turning left. Proceed with caution.

 

Traffic lights, going straight or right work with the system.

 

Stop streets, turning left, slip in as possible.

 

Going straight at a 3 way, follow the behaviour of the cars.

 

4 way is dodgy because you can get a jumper from the other direction, cutting straight across you, so rather slow down totally.

[tubed]

Coenie - I asked you to consider my point - I am not here to try and convince you - this anonymous forum enables you to be very definitive in a response - so be it 

Overall my post had two points

the practice I observe is illegal and dangerous - I appreciate that the circumstances may dictate a less strict application of the law;

the flagrant and arrogant disregard of traffic laws by cyclists, especially those training in groups, tends to reinforce the loathing many motorists have for cyclists 

As an observation - commuters on bikes have an acute appreciation of their need to stay alive - hence they work within the system. Examples of this would be with cars, buses or taxis - hand signals, assertive/ definitive riding styles, communication with and regard for other road users and pedestrians are the norm. Bike messengers would probably also fall into this category.

 

 

[Lucky Luke.]

@tubed Correct. That is the difference I noticed immediately when I transitioned from riding as a commuter for many years in London, to doing club and group rides with sport-specific cyclists. Guys who ride in big bunches have a greater, perhaps artificial sense of security than your average city commuter. They tend to do things I would never do with my riding background. I am not a strictly law abiding cyclist as I have said, but I think I have an acute awareness of the surrounding traffic that other bunch riders sometimes don't.

[Lucky Luke.]

Unfortunately I also feel that becoming more strictly law abiding will not endear us to or protect us from the motorists who endanger us. I believe accidents tend to happen because of ingrained incompetencies or driving / cycling attitudes and the law does not fall on either side of these criteria.