Ti or Carbon - your opinion appreciated

[jeremyd]

Check this out http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3741362681682291899&q=litespeed&total=53&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

I was looking at the same thing this afternoon, but I've decided to go for the Ti. There doesn't seem to be a right or wrong. Some people say it's a fashion thing. Others will tell you Ti flexes too much. Everyone agrees about one thing, whether it's carbon or Ti make sure it's a reputable manufacturer. Litespeed appear to be tops (I only say appear) in the titanium stakes but this is probably because of the exposure here compared to other Ti manufacturers. Ti is definitely stronger and will take a lot more punishment when you fall, but then who aims to fall a lot. Weight isn't a factor because different frames weigh in differently

See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html for more on the difference in structure.

 

It's kind of a merc bmw audi thing. Those who ride titanium, love it. Those who ride carbon, love it.

 

There is a ton out there on the net regarding the 2 arguments, but no conclusion other than the fact that you will probably get more carbon for the same price of the Ti

[quinton]

Well I always thought I must get a carbon bike and that they are the best thing since slice bread - I eventually got awesome deal on a Trek 6.9 ssl.

 

I had it for 6 weeks, went down in a race 2 weeks ago and someone behind me must have gone over the bike and now I have a top of the range frame that only looks nice as a wall mount and worth nothing.

 

So if you going to insure it, go for anyone cause you can claim for the damage. Otherwise stick whats is the strongest.

 

So if anyone knows anyone that can do magic on carbon frame let me know.

 

 

 

[cracked up]

Steven Oberholster.. IN Potch he knows a thing or two bout carbon

[Christie]

quinton, send a pm to Cruxpearl, he can put you in touch with people who can fix carbon frames that were damaged.

[quinton]

Thanks Cristie, as this 6.9 doesn't make as a nice ornament of my wall

 

 

I have also been told about someone cape town that has actually made some carbon frames and has patents on carbon cranks and various other carbon components.

 

[peloton]

Whereas carbon is the most common element found in the universe, titanium is quite rare.

 

Except on planet Titanium, of course!

[Groot Lem]

Latrinus got a DEAN mtb frame. Is that TI?

[Christie]

Check this out 

litespeed&total=53&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

I was looking at the same thing this afternoon' date=' but I've decided to go for the Ti. There doesn't seem to be a right or wrong. Some people say it's a fashion thing. Others will tell you Ti flexes too much. Everyone agrees about one thing, whether it's carbon or Ti make sure it's a reputable manufacturer. Litespeed appear to be tops (I only say appear) in the titanium stakes but this is probably because of the exposure here compared to other Ti manufacturers. Ti is definitely stronger and will take a lot more punishment when you fall, but then who aims to fall a lot. Weight isn't a factor because different frames weigh in differently

See  for more on the difference in structure.

 

It's kind of a merc bmw audi thing. Those who ride titanium, love it. Those who ride carbon, love it.

 

There is a ton out there on the net regarding the 2 arguments, but no conclusion other than the fact that you will probably get more carbon for the same price of the Ti

[/quote']

The video looks a bit fishy - but lets assume they applied equal load on all 3 tubes - if they drove over a complete Ti frame, the rear triangle would be destroyed. I read an article in Bicycling or somewhere of one of the editors who slowly drove into the garage with her Ti Serotta on the roof rack. Top tube buckled. I saw the same thing happen to a Cervelo R2.5, no dammage to the frame. Frame damage because of a crash depends on the conditions of the crash - sometimes you drop a glass and it doesn't break, sometimes it shatters.

 

Brings me to my second comment: Like you said, there are lots of Ti out there, Serotta, Lynskey, Merlin, Seven, Van Nicolas, also some of the big Italian makes like Colnago, De Rosa & Bianchi. I would have a serious look at a Seven () if I were shopping for Ti.

 

To say this material flexes more than that material is not correct. Like GoLefty said, it is all about design. You get very stiff Ti frames, and very flexible carbon frames. But it is a fact that the specific strength (strength/density)and stiffness(stiffness/density) of carbon composites in general is much higher than Ti. This means that for the same mass, a carbon stucture will be stronger and stiffer than Ti. BUT some other factors should be considered: The welded joints on a Ti frame weigh less than the lugs/bonds on a carbon one, and even on one piece carbon frames, extra material goes into the joint areas. At the end of the day, for the same mass, a good carbon frame will be stiffer, but not by as much as the raw material properties would suggest.

 

Litespeed wanted to make the lightest frame in the world with the Ghisalo. To do that, they had to sacrifice stiffness. The Addict is lighter than the Ghisalo, and I would guess that it is stiffer as well. If you are looking for a Litespeed to race, rather go for a Vortex or Ultimate.

 

BTW if you are concerned about durability, you can probably buy almost 2 Addicts for the price of one Litespeed, just hang one on the wall to use in case you crash

Christie2007-08-23 14:03:43

[Vincent]

Ti Rules !!!

[nellie]

 

Two very different rides. Prefer the Litespeed' date=' but due to it's age it's a bit heavy...but it's bomb proof!

 

[/quote']

 

Bummer that they don't make all seat posts from bomb proof titanium hey?

 

Anyways...back to the topic...ti for me too - not so hung up on the whole carbon hype!

[Jules]

Get a Giant TCR aluminium. As stiff as both bikes, and only a tiny bit heavier. You can shave the extra grams by spending the money you save on a set of carbon wheels - where you actually might have a (small) chance of noticing the diffence

 

 

 

Whoever said buy the bike that fits you had it right. A ten year old raleigh with a perfect fit rides better than any Addict or Litespeed that's the wrong size.

 

 

 

I'd love to blindfold test the people who say they can tell the difference between ti and carbon. A small change in tyre pressure is probably the difference you'll notice most.

 

 

 

The wonderful thing about cycling is that the cheap bikes are getting so good that the manufacturers have to come up with all kinds of ingenious ways of giving excuses to those of us who don't mind spending a little extra on our bikes.

 

 

 

So if you're prepared to admit that you're not buying the bike for performance, but because you want to own an exclusive machine, it still comes down to image and lifestyle.

 

 

 

To compare the two bikes to property, I'd say the Litespeed is an old mining-baron house in Westcliff while the Addict is a penthouse suite in the Michaelangelo Towers. Both very nice, but they appeal to different tastes.

 

 

 

Ideally you should get both, and pick the bike for the right riding occasion. In fact, I would recommend buying six bikes, so that you can have the option of each bike with Dura Ace, Record or Sram Red.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jeremyd]

The video was actually shot for a tv station and not for litespeed. They did drive over whole frames but apparently it was thought that people would think that the Ti frame was filled with a resin if it wasn't shown as a cross section. (don't know why they could demo it and then cut a cross section). But interesting nonetheless. Another argument for Ti out there appears to be that if you have a hairline crack in your Ti frame, you have an incredibly good chance of getting home, whilst a crack in a carbon frame, has a much higher risk of doing you in before you finish your ride. (don't shoot the messenger, this is one of the many thoughts about Ti vs Carbon out there ). (you can see I've done a lot of reading  about this topic)

[RodTi]

Latrinus got a DEAN mtb frame. Is that TI?

 

As far as I know, DEAN makes seriously good Ti frames...

They appear to be pretty exclusive, and actually think that they compare very favourably with Litespeed - possibly even pipping them...

 

I've also seen a DEAN Ti/Carbon combo - the toptube and downtube were carbon, the rest Ti...

 

Looked really odd, and yet - couldn't stop staring at it...

 

 

[jeremyd]

The siena 2005 model is a combo carbon/Ti. I spoke to Litespeed and they said this was simply a fashion thing and is not done anymore. (download their latest brochure..ooooooh! enought to make you go weak at the knees)