Another PPA Ride IndeX Fiasco 99er 2011

[orbeaorca]

I went 8min faster than 2010 my ride index 3points worse!

2010 winners time 237 my time 326 my index 29

2011. winners time 233!my time 318 my index 32

 

What do you guys think? And what happened to your index?

Edited February 17, 2011 by orbeaorca

[MariusL]

so basically u are worse off for you 2011 Argus seeding?

[headhunter]

I went 20mins faster than last year and the index was almost identical.....tell me that aint FUBAR !!!!

[Bram_on_Madone]

The indeces have definitely gotten tougher - maybe the average rider out there is fitter? Also, there was a fair bit more wind in last year's race, so the field would have been spread out more. Personally I improved my time by about 15min's which improved my index by 4 points, which doesn't seem totally unrealistic. If you got a 32 index, you're probably riding group H or I in the PPA races - the question is, are you riding away from everybody there and winning your group? If this is the case I would call PPA and ask them to bump me up. If you have come top 5 in your group in a few races (preferably with a time gap), and you're not moving in the seeding, they should be quite willing to listen.

[Thor Buttox]

At the risk of backing PPA after originally being grumpy about what I thought was a good ride unrewarded (for me), I have actually gone and checked the calcs of my times based on what some guys said on another thread, and actually the only thing that still is silly is the ghost rider that beats the winner by 10mins. I'm seeded J, all the races this year have been seeded I, J or K depending on the number of hills and I normally come half way in J group on a tough course.

 

More training and saddle time, me thinks...

[Ceres]

I dont agree with the seeding. Here is list of my races with my group position and the indexes I get. Take in mind most of the time I finished in the front group and there wasnt one guy say that had 5 or 10 minutes on me. Also some of the guys in my group had better PPA numbers some E's and F's. My PPA group is J.

 

Burger group G 7/193 index 32.84 = J time 3:00

 

Boland Drukers group I-J 3/39 index 29.94 time 3:13 (this one I dont understand almost win I but I almost get a J seeding???)

 

Cape Cobra group J 5/41 index 30.446 = J time 2:59

 

So alot of these races I'm in the top five but my seeding doesnt get better??????

[Montblanc]

The only way too improve seeding is to ride league I was told.

[orbeaorca]

I dont agree with the seeding. Here is list of my races with my group position and the indexes I get. Take in mind most of the time I finished in the front group and there wasnt one guy say that had 5 or 10 minutes on me. Also some of the guys in my group had better PPA numbers some E's and F's. My PPA group is J.

 

Burger group G 7/193 index 32.84 = J time 3:00

 

Boland Drukers group I-J 3/39 index 29.94 time 3:13 (this one I dont understand almost win I but I almost get a J seeding???)

 

Cape Cobra group J 5/41 index 30.446 = J time 2:59

 

So alot of these races I'm in the top five but my seeding doesnt get better??????

 

I still maintain the way they work out the index punishes people for improving. If too many people improve then the race must have been too easy rather than being fitter therefore the ghost rider must be made much faster.

[Lucky Luke.]

PPA are purging the upper echelons of their seeded riders. That is the only reason it is harder than usual to advance up the ranks. The higher you go the tougher it gets. Only way in to A group is through MTB events. Road Race winners get a B seeding at best.

[Guest]

The only way too improve seeding is to ride league I was told.

 

Wont work for you, you get dropped from your current group at rides, if you ride league you will be dropped sooner and you will pop so your seeding times will be worse off.

[Elvin]

There seems to be alot of upset around the seeding system.

I only started racing this year, completed 4 races so far, started in W in all of them, moved up to I this week.

It seems you need to ride away from you starting group to improve your seeding. Its hard work without the benefit of the draft of a group.

 

The real challange starts now, chasing faster groups now. Maybe Ill be complaining here aswell in the near future.

[Lucky Luke.]

There seems to be alot of upset around the seeding system.

I only started racing this year, completed 4 races so far, started in W in all of them, moved up to I this week.

It seems you need to ride away from you starting group to improve your seeding. Its hard work without the benefit of the draft of a group.

 

The real challange starts now, chasing faster groups now. Maybe Ill be complaining here aswell in the near future.

 

Yes, you have the right approach. Jump from the gun and try to move up the letters. Your seeding will do the same.

[Ceres]

There seems to be alot of upset around the seeding system.

I only started racing this year, completed 4 races so far, started in W in all of them, moved up to I this week.

It seems you need to ride away from you starting group to improve your seeding. Its hard work without the benefit of the draft of a group.

 

The real challange starts now, chasing faster groups now. Maybe Ill be complaining here aswell in the near future.

 

Thats pretty much what I did too. But you'll find from "I" its starts to get alot harder to ride away. (professional wheel suckers)

Edited February 17, 2011 by Ceres

[niklasvm]

Most of us in higher groups D-F are struggling to move up in the seeding. Every race we do we don't come close to getting an equivalent index. What would happen if we all started riding in lower groups. Wouldn't this upset the seeding system as suddenly times would be faster and groups would start getting too big?

[Montblanc]

Wont work for you, you get dropped from your current group at rides, if you ride league you will be dropped sooner and you will pop so your seeding times will be worse off.

 

 

According to David Clark from PPA, not me.

[scuzzy]

As far as I understand, they use the winner's time of the race, not your group, so theoretically, it doesn"t matter where you end up in your group, but in relation to the overall winner's time.

 

If you then go by what they say on the website, the calculation is (your time/winner's time)-1 = 0.y = y%

 

The only thing that we won't be able to calculate is how they get to the beta time

 

If you then take the 99'er in the same calculation and use the reworked winner's time which they put down as 2:33,31 (real time was 2:42,04) my calculation would look like this:

 

202(3:24)/153(2:33) = 1.32026 - 1 = 0.32026 = 32.02% yet, my seeding index is 36.46

 

Even, for arguments sake if you use the original winning time

 

202/162 = 1.24691 - 1 = 0.24691 = 24.69%

 

But then I looked at the PPA calculation again and found this: (your time / adjusted winner's time - 1) / beta value and then expressed as a percentage

 

And because we don't kow the beta value, we won't be able to make the calculation ourselves, but working from what index they gave me, the beta for the 99'er was about 0.87

 

then the calculation should look like this:

 

[(202/153) - 1] / 0.87 = 0.36811 = 36.81 which is as close to dammit compared to what they gave me.

 

So.....

 

Basically it is the formula they use, will be interesting to see what everbody else comes up with if you use this formula and compare it to what index they gave you.

 

Does that make sense?