andydude

http://www.cyclingsa.com/2016-sa-road-champs/ Look under "Results" on the right hand side menu.

Can you please point to the source saying she has to pay back all the prize money won in 2015, as well as sponsorship money? And also that it's going to the next people moving up one position? If you are an elite athlete, would you not visit a doctor that knows about sport and the prohibited list? If you want a divorce, do you go to a patent lawyer? I tend to agree with you that it looks like she made an honest mistake, but the rules are the rules and she cheated. End-van-prent.

I agree with you. I do feel a little sympathy for her (like for all dopers, but that's another discussion), but ignorance is not a defense. To be honest, I can't really believe that she and the doctor doesn't know about anti-doping rules, why non-performing medications are also on the list and that they don't know what a TUE is and the related process. Can they both really be that naive? Unfortunately she will have to take this one on the chin and hopefully all the other athletes learn from this. But did she take it on the chin? Did she lose any prize money? Did anything really happen?

Ahhh this story again. I actually don't believe that a u23 should be able to win elites, different categories. But only my opinion. They should have cleared this in '14 and the rules should be crystal clear? Anybody have the rules?

Good article: This Is Your Brain on Investing http://blogs.wsj.com/experts/2016/02/11/this-is-your-brain-on-investing/

Event Name: CA2CX MTB TOUR (MEERENDAL TO KNYSNA) When: 26 June 2016 - 3 July 2016 Where: Meerendal Wine Estate, Durbanville, Western Cape Category: MTB * Note that I'm only helping with the awareness of this event * The CA2CX is a mountain bike tour that every keen mountain biker should experience. The tour takes place each year in June (26 June to 3rd July 2016). Please note that race entries are limited to 60 riders. The Race is Divided into 6 Stages: Stage 1: Meerendal to Worcester Stage 2: Worcester to Montagu Stage 3: Montagu to Ladismith Stage 4: Ladismith to Calitzdorp Stage 5: Calitzdorp to George Stage 6: George to Knysna The daily route, of about 100km per stage consists of farmlands, spectacular landscapes and amazing views. Riders can enter one of the following groups: 14 - 18kph,18-22kph or 22kph and up Accommodation throughout the race will be 4-5 star guesthouses and hotels. The Tour Package Includes: Medical support, transport of luggage, feed box and goodie bag,back-up vehicles, cycling tour jacket, cycling top, 7x breakfasts, 6x lunch packs, 5x suppers. The Tour Package Excludes: Bike service (R850), massage package, transport back to Cape Town (R450) transport to and from Airport, Liquor at supper (cash bar) Website: More information is available on the website http://www.mountainbikeadventuretours.co.za/#!ca2cx/cunm and they also have a Facebook page. Contacts: For enquiries you can contact JJ Steyn on classiccycles1@gmail.com or Petro Uren on petro@herberg.co.za Go to Event Page

Good discussion, thanks. I kind of agree with what carbon boy and raptor is saying.

Agreed. Slight tangent, but I also see a gap in the education of young sports people in the processes and responsibilities of not only following the rules of a specific race (e.g. junior gearing), but also the anti-doping rules and how to stay on the correct side of those rules in terms of supplements, medicines, etcetera. I guess the parents and team managers would fill some role there, but the final responsibility falls on the rider therefore the rider should also know all the rules and processes.

I think that is wrong. It sounds very much like the sponsored "research" which the energy companies used to push their products. I can't find the more correct studies now, but here is one link to an article written by Ross Tucker (including links at the bottom) http://sportsscientists.com/2013/01/dangerous-exercise-the-hype-of-dehydration-heat-stroke/ "Supposedly, as little as 2% dehydration impairs performance by 10%, which is amusing because when the world’s elite marathon runners finish in 2:05, they have lost at least 2% body weight, which means they’re running two minutes slower than they would’ve done had they listened to many Gatorade advertisements and scientists sponsored to tell this “truth”. The problem is not dehydration, it’s thirst – the discomfort created by feeling thirsty is without doubt detrimental, which is why drinking ad libitium, in response to thirst, is both good enough to ensure our health and to optimize performance."

Supplements is a whole new problem area. They of course will never guarantee the supplements are without prohibited substances and the biggest risk is contamination by other products they sell. Did you know that the supplement companies use specially tested batches for their athletes? They would take a normal batch and test it and if clean give that to their sponsored and other athletes. Actually thinking now, what happens to the not clean batches mmm... From the US, but read this: Most Americans are unaware that designer steroids and other dangerous drugs are intentionally being sold as dietary supplements and that current law makes it too easy for these products to get to the market. Best estimates suggest that there are hundreds of supplement products currently available that contain one or more of approximately 20 to 25 designer steroids alone. For example, in a 2004 study funded by the International Olympic Committee, 18.8 percent of the 245 supplements analyzed from the United States were found positive for steroids. In a 2007 HFL study, of the 54 supplements that were analyzed for stimulants, 6 were positive (11.1 percent); of the 52 supplements analyzed for steroids, 13 were positive (25 percent). http://www.usada.org/resources/nutrition/vitamins-minerals-and-other-supplements/

Does the Epic only have a lifetime ban for taking prohibited substances or does it cover any Epic/UCI/CSA rules broken?

Some information from http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/amiloride-and-hydrochlorothiazide-oral-route/description/drg-20071506 "Amiloride and hydrochlorothiazide are both diuretic medicines (water pills). They reduce the amount of water in the body by increasing the flow of urine, which helps lower the blood pressure. Amiloride keeps your body from losing too much potassium when urine flow is increased." It seems to be used to lose weight? Not one the same level as taking steroids or epo, but still against the rules as per the new prohibited substances list http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53f5fb7ce4b0cab4a7fe8561/t/56a21a45bfe873a45161abb1/1453464136394/20160122_wada-2016-prohibited-list-en.pdf Edit: thanks Odinson, you mentioned that it could also be a masking agent as you probably pee out any other banned substances quicker.

First question - how do you know? Second question - you seem to imply that she did get the TUE, but that the process was flawed, and if so, what was the flaw?

Also interested in your question. One exception would render the rule and idea useless.

Denial? They learn from the best in Europe.

Remember the onus is on you to make sure you don't take anything on that list

Evidence actually influences the truth. Ask schrodinger's cat.

Sounds like you wanting the final word

I understand where you are coming from, but with all due respect, I think that's a discussion for another thread. It gets really tricky really fast. Back to KE, you propose that perhaps he was riding only to participate and not win, but I have the following questions: Did he still start in the racing group? Did he win any prize money? Did he receive any sponsorship which relies on him winning/doing well? If you are really sick then should you not rest and recover instead of racing in racing bunch?

Of course. Was just playing along with raptor's scenario to see where it goes.

To continue with your scenario, is it ok to cheat & dope if you are riding for appearance and not trying to win?

Lots to think about

Thanks for the clarification, V12 [emoji106]

When I had to do the medical for the epic two years back I also asked the doc to include some blood tests out of interest. Some of my results: Type, Result, Reference Haemoglobin, 15.7 g/dl, 14.3-18.3 Red cell count, 5.14 10*12/l, 4.89-6.11 Haematocrit, 45.7%, 43.0-55.0 Interesting that the reference for haematocrit goes to 55.0 confirming that it's normal for > 50.0. If you want I can send you my report and you can check all the other things tested like white blood cells and lots if others.

It started with someone posting their early wakeup time to go training, and that's when the fun started! Someone then mentioned the stories from the 90s about riders having to get up early to get their heartrates up because of the epo making their blood thick and people dying. Proof was requested of those stories, but no direct proof was given. A bit of tit for tat followed in whether it's true and possible for that high levels. Then we started discussing haematocrit levels and what was uci legal and then also about doping not giving the same advantage to everyone. So point 1, next time read yourself [emoji14] and 2, it has nothing to do with KE's case. Just some interesting information.