andydude

I can kind of understand stricker's point. It's like if you buy a product you expect certain things. Same for if you buy a service. In my opinion, the problem comes in trying to quantify something that can't be quantifed. The human body is an amazing 'machine' of which we still don't understand everything. Throw in that no two are alike and responds to any stimulus differently makes it almost impossible to predict. There are just too many internal and external variables. That's the problem with the interpretation of some studies. E.g. the one study that was quoted says exercise will improve vo2 max by 10% (numbers not real, but for illustrative purposes). Great, I am expecting 10%! But there was actually a range of between MINUS 5% and plus 25%. So the coach and you could've been perfect, but your achievement could leave you very unhappy. Therefore, I think communication is very important.

Very interesting study, thanks! Do you perhaps have a link to the full study? Would be interesting to know whether they controlled any other variables except exercise.

You are asking the "cheaper option" question and will get a cheaper reply. No offense to cheaper packages; all have their place. Your question kind of gives away your lack of knowledge, but please, it's not an insult! The expensive question would start with YOUR situation, your details, e.g. age, current condition, threshold, heart rates, your plans going forward, what you want to achieve, etc., etc. And then remember, everybody is different therefore the same program will have different results to different athletes. Please reread your question and think how it can never be answered without a lot more information.

Only qualifies with pictures!

Non!

Very fortunate to have been able to go ride that unforgiving mountain today. Three times. I am dead.

No.. no.. and actually Long Wheel, some people say the top of that 'little' hill in the background looks like a moon landscape [emoji1]

If you can guess where, I will buy you a draught beer next time I am in your neighbourhood [emoji482]

Seems like no climbs but high possibility of wind, echelons and splits?

First!! And it's a really awesome story including how Lewis travelled and raced. Here is some information from http://www.ancestors.co.za/articles/general-articles/history-of-cycling-in-south-africa/ In 1908 in London four cyclists (F. Shore, F. T. Venter, P. T. Freylinck and T. H. E. Passmore) represented South Africa at the Olympic Games for the first time. Four year s later at the Olympic Games in Stockholm a mine-worker from Johannesburg, Rudolph Lewis, scored the first Olympic cycling victory for South Africa. He won the gold medal in the road race over 320 kilometres (198 miles 1,478 yards), beating 134 opponents in 10 hrs. 42 min. 39 sec.

Edit: double post

Not directly related to this thread, but an interesting read in the Financial Mail about Discovery http://www.financialmail.co.za/coverstory/2016/07/29/discovery-s-adrian-gore-on-why-medical-aid-costs-are-soaring Discovery's Adrian Gore on why medical aid costs are soaring

If you want I can also send the link to the rules, but in order of (1) TT to 1/100th of second, (2) sum of all stages' places, (3) place last stage Edit: thanks gerald [emoji106]

Good article, thanks. The only thing I want to question is that they are not really talking about "amateurs" in the sense of funriders as we know it. "Category 1, 2, and 3 amateurs in the United States" is still serious racing and many of the cat 1's would give pros a go. Also, as far as I know they race for sponsored teams and prize money (like our VAs, VBs, etc.). What do you think?

No, it's not as long as you adhere to the rule of thumb.

I am not sure if you are serious or not, but I will try to answer some of your questions; The whole premise of his post was that he talks from a highly knowledgable level, but then he talks about jellytots and unscientific methods to determine steroid and epo use. Does that make sense? The "medial profession" is so wide that what he practises could have little relevance to the doping in sport topic. I was not judging him, just pointing out a few fallacies in his argument. I neatly listed all the problems I see and my opinions on that. Just because someone is a "medical professional" or a "pastor" or a whatever does not mean they are right, or wrong for that matter. But I give respect when earned, not for position or title. What exactly was his opinion? He himself said the lady doped and got caught. If he wanted less ambiguity he should have explained more. Or perhaps you know more? From the way he wrote it it seemed he is backing a caught doper. I do apologise if I came across as arrogant or patronizing; that was not my intention. But sometimes I just get tired of the excuses and reasons for doping.

Very important point, rattlesnake. I've said on numerous times that we've all doped at some stage through medicine and/or supplements. There have been numerous studies showing supplements are contaminated (can't remember exactly the percentage, but something like between 10 and 25%), whereafter I posed the question, would you take supplements if you know there was that chance that it's contaminated? The only difference I can think of between pros and joes, is that pros get paid and win prize money while joes pay for their own entries and don't win anything. And that is a big difference and why they should be held to a higher level. At some level I don't even think they should waste resources on joes and rather concentrate on pros and category riders who ride for money.

With all due respect, this is a typical troll post and I get the feeling you just wanted to argue. It's Friday, so I won't go into more detail, except to say you haven't changed my mind one bit. Can't even say good try.

Hi Kabous. I want to agree with you, but in all honesty, I don't think you are helping your own case. First problem, "I am a doctor" to make us believe that you talk from some more enlightened place and that you have the final say. What kind of doctor? Have you studied sports science? You know why the prohibited drugs are on the list? Second, you include yourself when you say "Doctors give these out like jellytots" which doesn't give me confidence in your profession. Do you do the same? Third problem, you say you are a doctor, which I would think includes some or other scientific processes, but you want to use something like "have you looked at the physique of this girl" to prove a point? Fourth, you mention a girl you know who HAS doped and got caught, but you will still vouch for her integrity? And it's a loss for the cycling fraternity? How does that work? But I agree with you that CSA doesn't handle or do anything well, except spending the budget. But remember two things, it's Friday so take everything with a pinch of salt, and I actually agree to some level with you.

It's interesting everyone slating the distributors, rightly so, but our beloved Shimano is not an angel either. Interesting read, even though it's from 2001. A Stick In The Spokes http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0305/148.html

Not sure if already posted, but an interesting article : 10,000 Steps A Day: The Wrong Wellness Incentive http://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2016/05/24/10000-steps-a-day-the-wrong-wellness-incentive/#26c67a439150

Oohh can't wait for Friday

Ok so speeding at 150km/h on the highways is fine, because it probably won't attract a criminal conviction. But speeding at 200km/h will and is wrong. Can you see the problem? Both are wrong, one just more. So are you saying it's either 100% or 0% doping? No in between? I'm pretty sure almost everyone on the hub, you included, have doped in your lives through medicine, supplements, contamination, etc.

Ok Savage, let's go further with your example; let's say the CA(SA) gets caught speeding, should he also be banned from his profession? Or not? See the grey?

To be fair, fands, those things he mentionds are strictly prohibited and even easier to sanction for. But see, already it's becoming a grey area, because you don't list all the cheaters, only the dopers. That's one rule. Would you also include motors in bikes? You see where this is going? Don't get me wrong, I am as against doping as the next guy, but I can also see the bigger picture. And part of me do get why these guys are doping. As any athlete in the world. Everybody is pushing the boundaries in training, supplements, grey areas. And now for the flame-me part, doping is not black and white. It's grey. People do accidentally take something they shouldn't. You just have to look at the prohibited list to see how silly it is. If I tell you 10% of supplements are contaminated, would you stop taking any supplements? If you get bust for using a contaminated supplement from a well known manufacturer, should we ban for life? Part of the problem of doping is that they try to be professional with amateur structures. Sport is not sport anymore, it's a job. A business. Treat it then the same as the law. Have a special court decide if someone is doping intentionally, and if yes, be my guest, ban for one, two or ten life sentences. ALL I'M SHOUTING IS THAT IT'S NOT BLACK AND WHITE !!