Headshot

Most DH bikes look a tad bizarre, rather than ugly - something to do with the frame shape to accommodate all that travel and super slack head angles. This Lapierre is fine, no more odd looking than the rest :-)

Superbly spot on!

G-R - I think Deon's comment is very apt. Most of the comments were not bad mouthing anyone and were emotive because there is a real safety issue. There are very limited single track trails open to MTB riders in TM and my common sense tells me that trail runners should respect that and stick to the many other km of trail available to them. On payment - my guess is that many many cyclists have activity cards - mine is always in my pack. Someone else made a comment about cyclists not paying to ride in Tokai or sneaking in. This may well happen after hours but again my guess is the majority do pay most of the time. Good to hear there will be a meeting. My attitude remains that faster trails like Vasbyt, My roots and obviously the DH and snakes should be kept bike only. For the rest, share and share alike.

I think home ground advantage would help a bit, but the pro's are fast anywhere and its not a difficult trail. Some of the faster people from the North don't ride at Tokai much so Strava isn't a good gauge either. Would love to see a race at Tokai though...

Ya, its not a black and white thing at all. Vasbyt is now flowier than it was before and I love the extra speed you can carry on parts of it. On the other hand I know it so well that its not a technical challenge anymore, just fun. The DH line is another story - I always develop a nervous tension before I ride it because it pushes my skills and bravery a lot more. Tokai has a pretty good mix of everything especially if you take those not to be ridden horse/slippery trails into account. The off camber with tight corners and steepness is something that is lacking elsewhere on the mountain and even at Jonkers. Challenging and fun without requiring massive commitment or risk taking.

Yep, there Vital MTB and Bike Radar as well. SA is famous for the wrong reasons again...

Redbull TV works a treat and I can get up to 540p with a wifi connected PC!

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-it-should-be-hard-shouldnt-it-2014.html

Nonsense - more like no running if that happens. But yes, signs are needed. TMNP is a stumbling block there as their signage requirements mean they are not very informative or easy to read...

Descending a steep trail be it on a bike or foot is always fun. Boulder hopping down a kloof even more so. Can't see why Tokai MTB need a runner to attend the meeting with trail runners. They will bring the runners themselves. Should they also bring a mountain biker with them?

@ Red Zone Now you really have muddied the waters :-) The issues with fellow MTB riders have been argued ad nauseam already here and elsewhere. Basic trail etiquette from all sides will help enormously. Nobody disputes that Tokai is a place for all comers and all skill levels but sanity and common sense should prevail On the environmental issues - yes bikes can damage trails more in some situations, but cyclists generally maintain those trails via Tokai MTB. The trail runners do nothing as far as I know. I haven't seen any litter on MTB trails. Hikers in my experience litter far more than bikers. Running down a path causes more erosion than simply rolling it on a bike. Its not an open and shut issue by any means The person who made the comment about hitting a runner has explained his comment but you seem to have ignored it. There is as much chance that an incident where a bike hits a pedestrian will cause cycling to be banned as if two bikes collide. You say you are a cyclist but appear to assume that an aggro cyclist would actually intentionally hit another person. We all know this is only possible if you are in a 4x4 and would never do it with our bikes :-) Cyclists are more at risk of serious injury because they can't simply step out of the way and are travelling a lot faster so its not an option, as you should know. There is no such thing as riding with reckless abandon - those movies you see on Youtube are shot over many sessions and involve trained professionals :-). Everyone expects to meet a person or rider, adult or child when descending at Tokai and we ride with that in mind, always. Its the reality, we have no choice. To say that people should not be able to ride their bikes fast on a trail full of fun features, maintained and built by mountain bikers because of safety concerns goes too far I think. My comments about a speed limit were not meant to be taken seriously BTW. The question is really whether runners should be running up a fast MTB trail in groups or alone or should they stick to the jeep track and other trails like Elephants Eye? This is my approach: When I run and hike on the mountain I go to Kirstenbosch or Cecilia. When I cycle I go to Tokai. If I went there to hike as I have done a few times with my baby son while my wife rides, I would stay off the fast dh trails or at least move well off a trail in very good time because I appreciate what effect my presence on the trail has for riders coming down. The runners I have encountered are generally oblivious until the last second and think that its okay to have your leg dangling into the trail rather than moving well off. This is why I think the trails in question should be mtb only. No matter how many warnings are given by the T and T run leaders, as already said some runners may not appreciate how fast a bike is going or the limited options available to a biker and the possibility of a serious crash. This is not a run/cycle along the Sea Point promenade after all. What is needed is a bit of "putting yourself in the other's shoes" from all concerned and this is where discussions like this and some education by running and cycling groups will help a lot.

Good points. There are many factors at play here. The distraction element is a problem. You see one runner, but round the corner there are 6 more you can't. Have they heard you or not? Will they get out of the way? Will you be able to stop in time? Will you make the corner or jump if you have to brake or take a different line? Its not the same as a group of runners and hikers meeting on a trail. Then again, if you are dawdling along meeting a group of hikers or runners isn't a problem really - back to the speed limit thing. I think a sense of community works both ways. If a trail is for MTB, safety concerns should dictate that you stay off it. Common sense really. Its also common cause that there are far more hiking and running trails than MTB routes. Treating a traffic light intersection as a stop street when its green is not quite the same as starting up a long DH section when you can only see as far as the first corner.

Good point. Its also time of day dependent and with the shorter days the daylight window to ride is shorter. When cyclists are making their way down the hill while its still light, runners are starting up... met a bunch on Vasbyt once taking pics of the full moon rising.

Yep, the safety issues are pretty obvious really aren't they.

@ Lefty Sense of humour failure? Huh? The safety argument has already been made - go back and read, What more do you want to hear? Maybe there should be a speed limit for MTB's. It will be safer and allow the trail runners to carry on using all the trails that the MTB peeps pay good money and spend a lot of time maintaining.

Yes we know you are ancient Leftyman. What about Boulders? Cobra et al, Did you build those too? Maintained and built up including jumps ie purpose built for MTB, not skate boards or parkour or hiking.

All the cycle tracks referred to are purpose built for MTB. We can all get along just stay on the jeep track and hiking only trails

Thanks for the response TMTB. I do not think they should be running on any of the MTB trails at all. Its all very well to say that they insist that cyclists have the right of way. All that means is that a group of runners will move and stand a little off the trail. Come round a corner a bit wide and you will still be at risk or distracted by the group and get something wrong because of that. They won't take responsibility because you did not hit them. There are many km of pedestrian friendly single track on TM after all. As I have said before I think TMTB needs to add a skills section to the website including some comments on situational awareness and considerate riding because some MTB riders are as bad as the trail runners IMO

I am with you on this one SpyDude but its not only the trail runners. Last week I was riding up the jeep track to see an XC rider and his tjom riding up the last piece of Vasbyt and the big berm!! Straight past the tiny sign nogal. I shouted loudly at them but they ignored me. I caught the guy up near boulders and asked him if it was him on the berm. He admitted it but was quick to tell me that he is a "racer" and knows what he's doing and this was the first time in more than a year he'd done that. I warned him about the dh speed issue and that dhers and others used the late afternoons to train, which he was unaware of. Trail and Tar has a running group do they not? Perhaps a good place to start would be there. They should not be on Vasbyt and definitely not on the dh lines.

Okay, so you literally bomb down the far side and see how far and high you can go when you hit the lip where the bike is. What does the landing look like? I can see how it could cause problems for those not versed in the correct body position and getting a bit of pump on the bike at take off. Also you speed needs to be managed carefully I would imagine...

If they want a real cyclist

http://velofille.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/former-pro-cyclist.jpg You have to get this guy. He is famous too.

Must say it is looking good - even better than a week ago now that the drop into the troll bridge has been patched up along with the junction below it. There is now also a nice little jump just before the middle big berm... Those snakes just need a going over...

That is luck rather than rim strength (or you don't ride quite as hard as you think you do)

Glen Wayne Bill - Thats a lot of first names...