nigelhicks

http://www.wccycling.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/Program.pdf

Sho I had forgotten about the Kermesse events - those were awesome - also left large amounts of my lungs on the cobbles at gateway with those races ... But there again - its okes not wanting to have their egos tarnished by getting absolutely thumped by the pros ....

not a schedule - but may help with contact details http://www.cyclingsa.com/Article.aspx?uid=2197

Also Check out CSA's website for the Calendar http://csams.cyclingsa.com/event-calendar.aspx

Because there isnt really a true world stage - there is no real Marathon World Cup for the guys to race in (there is World Champs - but thats like a once off) .... So the guys who race the World Cup XCO also race the Marathon Worlds ... So the level between SA Pro and International Pro is exceptional ... so for our guys to do well on the World Marathon Champs they need to be racing World Cup XCO to get that exposure to the speed etc ...This doesnt happen as it is expensive to go over and start racing as a semi pro trying to get a break on the circuit.

Exactly ... this is where the word-of-mouth issues come in which reduces its popularity ... Joe - "Hey Phil how was your ride this weekend? How far was it? What was your avg BPM? Strava COMS? .. etc" Phil - "Hey Joe. I spent R150 and raced 20km at the Giba Provincial .. man i died .. it was tough ... great track though.. but those guys are fast ... i got lapped on lap 3 but still ended up 5th in my category ..." Joe - "you got lapped?? (in joes mind he's thinking - man Phils a hacker if he got lapped), but wow R150 bucks to do 20km ... you could have gone to Karkloof and done 80km for R30?" Phil - "Yeah i know i felt out of my depth, but was fun to race - but man it was hard - but then again you just go round and round in a circle ..." Joe - "Ja that sucks ... Lets just go and do the Eston this weekend that will be cool - 60km in the cane roads - we can see what our max wattage is." Joe then sees Bill - "Hey Bill - did you hear ... Phil did that XCO this weekend and got drilled (no mention of the 5th place) ... he said it was flippin hard and that it sucked. Also he had to pay R150 to do 20km ... WTF .. so we are going to do Eston rather as there you get to ride for every and you can just cane it in the cane roads ..." .......... And thats how the bad reputation starts!

Its because of the mis-conception that it is too difficult and too high profile for 80% of the riders ... Although you line up with the pros in A-batch at a marathon event - due to the nature of the course - they will never be able to lap you ... In an XCO - its seen as being too difficult as if you cant stay with the top guns the impression is that you will be destroyed in 2 laps ... What people also forget though is that (unlike Marathons) you race in your age categories - so you are racing people your age and not the likes of the pros ... (unless you race elites). So it comes down to people thinking they cant do it and are aprehensive about it as they think "why go and do a race when i will be lapped and pulled off after 2 laps (10km) when i can go and do 40/60km for the same price" ... more bang for the buck ...

Sorry I didnt mean to "crucify" you okes (Mackie and Cap) ... please accept the apologies if it came across the wrong way

Not Lazy ... but YES!!!! .... Everyone also has the ability to come and race Provincial XCO or DH (even on their XC 29er rice rockets) .... It is ALL mis-conception ... The thing that people need to realise and come to grips with is not the technicality of the course - but their own tenchical limitiations ... you decide what you can or cant ride - and be happy with your decision ... if you need to take a B-line in an XCO or DHI event - do so ... no one will chirp you for it ... you may loose a second - but so what ... you are participating and having fun to the best of your known ability - soon you get up the confidence to try something and this helps you improve ... You dont come in gungho like some of the XC Masters this last year and try stuff, bin it and then complain as you think you are too hardcore to be forced to take a b-line! ... Everyone in SA could ride every XCO course or DHI course - you may not be able to be as fast as the top boys (but then again - are you as fast as Kevin Evans in every marathon you enter? or do you - like me - come in midpack but race your own time??? - same thing with XCO and DHI) You may not be able to do every jump etc, but you can ride the track using lines set for your ability ... and you can have fun ...

ok this is for the DH - but the same rings true for the XCO events and the logistics that go into filming a World Cup Event. Its NUTS what these guys do! http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Lights-Camera-red-bull-world-cup-coverage-video-2014.html

I agree to some extent Rudi - but i have a couple of points to add ... 1. TDF has been around since 1903 and is now after 120 years become one of the biggest televised events in the world... Problem is that MTB (although growing at a MASSIVE rate) has not had the same international exposure as it is a relatively new (25 years old) discipline ... The Epic has only been around for 5 to 10 years - so it has some catching up to do 2. from a Media Perspective - as i mentioned in an earlier post - its damn hard to film an off road marathon like the Epic unless its just on dirt road or really nice jeep track - the dudes on the motorbike will NEVER be able to keep up with the riders on the descents if the going gets tough ... So then you need to bring in choppers and this costs boatloads ... Also an issue is then who do you follow? In the Tour - you generally have a camera for the lead group and the chase groups and then the peleton ... But in Marathon the field is so spread out that this is almost impossible - so in the beginning when the UCI were trying to get televised marathons going - they made the riders use gps transponders - so you could see where your rider was in the pack etc - but who wants to stare at a google map image with a blinking dot on it???? You want to see the racing! .. but its too spread out so you can only really focus on the leaders ... So the UCI canned the idea as it was just too costly to televise ... Thats why XCO is spot on - mount the cameras in specific positions around a short lap and you see at least 70% of the racing with seing 50% of the riders!

Then there was a comment about XC Eliminator - ... well XCE is all well and good - but this is not really something that will take off in SA as it is too short for use with logisitics being a mission for such a quick event ... The UCI are also standardising viewing times for events across the board for 2014 - so XCE Events are now to be staged in the evenings on Fridays at like 7pm and need a sort of street circuit type thing ... So SA is unlikely to have this event this year due to the logistical nightmare the event will impose. So we can say good bye to XCE in SA in my opinion

Right ... (Nige gets his coffee and puts on his typing cap) There are a number of issues to this "problem" and have been brought up time and time again in our Commission meetings for KZN and the World Cup/Champs .... These are the following things to remember. 1. MTB (Marathon) is probably the fastest growing discipline in South Africa at the moment due to its ability to cater for ALL forms of person form the consummate pro to the average Joe ... The exposure of this discipline has been immense and due to this it has become the "go-to" form of exercise. ... In south africa the main focus is on MASS PARTICIPATION events such as Sani2C, JHB2C, EPIC ... and then all the other marathon events such as the Classic series in KZN and all the other 40 to 60km series events in JHB and CT .... This is great as everyone can enjoy the events no matter what your skill level (ok maybe not the EPIC - thats a different kettle of fish - but still) ... So this is where the SA market focusses their gaze and rightly so .... 2. XCO - this is the pinnicle of Cross Country MTB as it is A) an Olympic Discipline, B) was one of the first events to be registered under the UCI as a World Cup and World Champs status event. The event does not however cater for MASS Participation due to the nature of the tracks ... 3. XCO - MEDIA - XCO is by far one of the best events from a MEDIA perspective as it is relatively easy to film and makes for good racing (There was a comment made that the EPIC would surpass XCO at a media level and become like the TDF ... Yes maybe ... but from a media perspective dealing with the guys who film the World Cups, they say the XCO and DHI is the best from viewer potential - thats why they dont film the Marathon World Champs as there is not enough exposure for the all the teams and their riders when half the field are more than 20minutes back off the leaders and you have only one camera following the leaders ... Also if the tracks are gnarly - how can you have a motorbike (like in teh TDF) following a lead pack and the chasers doing all the filming - you couldnt ... so you would need helicopters - and this cost BIG tin .... So XCO is way more spectator friendly for people on site watching and also from a media perspective as static cameras can be positioned and used to film the riders over each lap .... SO - why if the Media side of things is WAY better does it not get the exposure to the common man and his kids like marathon does??? MIS-REPRESENTATION ... this is it ... you chat to someone who went to their first XCO event (likely a provincial as its either that or nationals) and they will say that they K@Ked off ... and likely say that it was way harder and more technical and they didnt really enjoy it ... thats because the intensity is so much higher that the track and style of riding is not really suited to 70% of riders until they get used to the discipline ... SO it gets a bad rep as most guys ride it once and then tell their mates that its too hard and its not worth doing when there are such great marathon events out there ... 4. THE HOT SHOTS Remember that in the UK, Europe and America there are full series for XCO and these are really well attended with 500 to 1000 riders compared to us at 100 per event ... BUT then over there although there are XCM mass events these are not shown to be the pinnicle of desirability to race and therefore everyone tries to race the XCO events ... Out of these riders internationally in each country - only 2 or 3 every 10 years go on to emulate the Nino's, Kulhavey's and Burry's .... so we need to remember that these riders come around very Seldom. 5 - So what to do about it???? The Spur Schools Series is a great stepping stone - but this must shift the young guns into PROVINCIAL LEVEL disciplines that have UCI WORLD CHAMPS Status such as XCO and DHI .. and not into Marathon ... This is where the fundimental shift needs to occur ... As much as we all dream that we are "the next Burry" ... if you are older than 18 and have not yet raced a World Cup event ... sorry buddy its too late ... the guys who get to that level were winning their national championships OVERALL (both XC and DH in Burrys case) at the age of 16 - and were getting international stage experience from 17! .... So we need to look at the School series and promote them to race more XCO than XCM - event though there is a wealth of XCM events in SA ... PS - sorry for the MASSIVE post!

Yeah i saw that - but i just wanted to clear up some stuff on that one question ... as the others are valid ... its almost definitely market related ... and what Jared is looking for!!!

PS - im not trying to start an argument - just pointing out some facts that most people forget about :thumbup:

Hahahahaha ... the std miss conception that the UCI do nothing for the sport and are just full of *** ... Although most std riders dont believe it as they are "guided" by what internet press releases say etc, the UCI has actually done (and continues to do) amazing stuff for our sport ... Remember that without the UCI taking on and embracing MTB in the early 1990's with the opening of the UCI World Cup ... there would never have been a series. ... Although there have been some shady ears - most of these were solely related to Road as MTB has its own "governing body" persay ... Melanie, Simon and David (the MTB crew) do a fantastic job and always try and make MTB better! ... Chris Ball and MArtin Whitely before him did the same thing and MTB grew from strength to strength under their rule ... Fine there have been some weird rules and stuff that have come out that people moan about - and in hindsight they shouldnt have even been considered ... but this is the way it works .... The same will happen with the EWS in the long run - (20 years down the line) ... where plans will have changed and the focus will have shifted to try and keep up with market needs and media etc .... Some people wont like it - others will be dying for change ... this is just the way things happen ... when a series has been running for that long ... you are bound to have people wanting something fresh ... so at that point something may turn up to take the limelight from EWS. But what im trying to say is that ... the UCI does not cause crap as Mackie said ... they do a TON of work to host an amazing series that we all love to watch (with a round on home soil - which we should be exceptionally grateful for) ... Most National events are all affiliated to the UCI as they are run by their national federations as are most international teams ... so i can assure you that (unlike Caps comment of "middle finger to the UCI) ... Yeti will still register as a trade team with the UCI - as both Jared and Richie will likely try and race World Champs DH on its own - like Jared did this year! ... and for that and many other reasons at a National and international enduro level - the company will need to be affiliated. ... So before branding the UCI as a bunch of c0ck spanners ... think what they have done for the sport over the last 20 years building it into an amazing series that we all get to enjoy.

Ya if you are using EXISTING trails - then you are fine ... dont worry about that then ... it only comes into play if you build a proper bridge with culverts etc over a water course ... or do big work opening an existing road with a TLB or excavator ... IMO - steer clear of any large building of wide track with machinery - the use of smaller track that is there already through anthropogenic or fauna influence cannot be included into an Enviromental issue ... If you need to cross a river - either use a small wooden bridge (this is classed as a temporary feature) or just jeep the path as is going through the river.

yes but that goes without saying as then it falls into protected land and therefore needs an EIA

So i have just had a quick meeting with our EIA guru and under the National Enviro Management Act (NEMA) there is no legislation governing the building of tracks for non-motorised vehicle use. The Cascades EMP was triggered through the clearing of the bottom area and not the tracks. The only thing to be careful of is the cutting of tracks in virgin grasslands etc as these may be endangered and then the poo hits the fan

If thats the case ... definitely contact Meurant at AMARider - and (although it will cost more) get the right advise on how to move forward with the project. ... I doubt that MOST bike "parks" in SA have been given Environmental Clearance for their trails, but as the Land owner consent is there then no one worries. The issue we had at Cascades was actually not due to the trails which were in disturbed land in plantations, but the grading and "re-vegetating" of the ope area where the finish and pits are - someone (a local resident) lodged a complaint with Enviro regarding the large-scale grading of the area - asking why a new parking lot was being built on the land ... Enviro came to check and asked us for a EMP or we would be given a fine .... What they forgot to look at was also the fact that we were "rehabilitating" the area as it had previously been disturbed land as it was previously all planted with pine and gum ... this didnt matter to them ... So then we had to complete a full EMP which included ALL the trails too ... had it not been for the big work at the bottom - Enviro and everyone else wouldnt have bothered .... So in this instance - Id say its a good plan to get Meurant involved ... as he will know the best legal positions and how to get through the Enviro process.

So if its out of the way - try and keep it under the radar ... just get the indemnity side of legal done and get land owner consent - but make them aware of the potential for Enviro costs

Yes it will - but just remember that with Legal often comes Environmental law ... if this happens ... good luck ... the Cascades EMP was pretty costly (10 to 20k - if i remember) ... If you will be building trails on specific land within 30m of a water course etc, you then need a water "use" licence i think it is ... and this is another nightmare ... This even includes just crossing a water course with a Bridge ... Anyway - i think legal is a good way to go about it as if the Environmental guys want to get nasty they can slap a BIG fine on the land owner for not adhearing to the legislation. However - if you are going to build in a currently operational plantation (like Cascades or Jonkers etc) then there are ways around the Environmental legal side as this land is disturbed land and if you can be seen to be "rehabilitating" it then Enviro will love you - but chat to the lawyer about this too,,, So from this aspect as well as the indemnity side - the council of a legal professional will be worth the cost in the long run.

Yeah im sure its going to be VERY different - no matter what the track ... when its wet us South Africans just stay indoors ... so we have zero exposure to wet roots and rocks ... so that will be MIGHTY fun ... But yeah I'm starting to look forward to it!

if it comes to it you may need to file an Environmental Management Plan with the Dept of Environmental Affairs. We had to do this for Cascades - and its a F-ing mission! ... Most trails are built once Land-owner consent is giving - this is given once route plans, indemnities for trail use, and all other legal mumbo-jumbo have been sorted out. Main thing to get right are your indemnities to cover the user and the land owner!

It depends what you are used to i suppose ... I have mates who (like Dips) have had nicknames that have been entrenched so much that we actually have "forgotten" their real names to such an extent that they introduce THEMSELVES as their nickname ... Personally - I use my real name as i think it will be better for KZN MTB and the World Cup Committees to use my real name so that people can actually converse with me properly if need be regarding events etc. ... ... and if i used my nicknames the following may happen ... 1. Big Nig = I will be thought of as a large stomached person of colour ... 2. Pic Nic (derived somehow from Big Nig) = I like going and eating food on the grass ... 3. Skelly = I may be perceived as being someone named Kelly hahahhahaa