Johan Bornman

Take that R3k that's burning your pocket and put it in your pension fund or house bond. It will not improve your performance at Berg and Bush one iota. Get a training program and stick to it. That will make a bigger difference.

Of course you have never had any problem. That's because it doesn't do any harm, or any good for that matter. As for your argument about it passing some sort of warrantee test, that's because they can't find evidence of the oil when servicing the fork because it does not penetrate beyond the wiper. But even if they do find evidence of it, why should it be an issue? Your argument that a warrantee-pass means the product works, doesn't make sense.

Lubing your fork from the outside is very good for the retailer's till. Lube your stanchions often to keep him in business. Jokes aside, a little bit of understanding of how stanchions and wiper seals work will perhaps help you make a more informed decision whether you want to apply external lube or not. The stanchions are not perfectly smooth. If you examine them with a magnifying glass, you'll see that the surface is rippled. No rough edges, but zillions of micro indentations can be seen. These indentations trap oil that is supplied from the inside, via a oiled foam ring just below the wiper (seal) and serve to lubricate the seal against the stanchion when it slides up and down. This prevents it from just "burning" away within a few cycles. In other words, the seal leaks slightly in order to not destroy itself when doing what it is supposed to do. We say, "a seal that does not leak, leaks". A paradox, I know, but stick with me. If you examine the seal/wiper assembly, you'll see it is a two part affair. The oil seal part of the rubber seal you can see, sits inside, just above the foam ring. Its job is to wipe excess oil off the stanchion as the fork is extending. It can't do a perfectly clean wipe because of the indentations in the stanchion. It leaves a thin layer of oil, just enough to lube itself and the wiper that's above it. Now the wiper, the visible part of the seal assembly, is a thin blade of rubber (just like the seal inside, but facing the other direction) with the job of wiping off any dirt that sticks to the stanchions as the fork is extended. If your seals are still good, you'll notice a thin ring of oil at the upper end of the external wiper's travel range at the end of your ride. This show you that the external wiper is doing its job by keeping that oil and dirt that sticks to it, off the active zone. In other words, we have two seals, one wiping inside and downwards, and the other outside and wiping outwards. The oil is supplied to the stanchion via splashing inside the fork and a continuously wet foam ring that smears it at the upper end. Now lets get back to the externally applied lube. It will stay there for exactly one wipe and then join the ring of wiped-off oil at the top of the fork. Weather it is pure silicone, a "blend" of exotic stuff or ox blood. It will stay on the stanchion for one cycle only. In other words, listen to Dave Marshall and don't bother with fancy boutique products with stupid claims.

You don't say what type of pads you used when replacing them but if it were resin pads, the problem could be green fade. Here's a repost of something I posted on this a year or so ago: We get different types of brake fade. 1) Fluid fade. This is when the fluid in the system boils, creating compressible bubbles. The symptoms are (ask Kevin), a lever that at the beginning of of the descent, felt hard but under hard braking became softer and softer until it eventually bottoms out against the bar. If you survive the incident, you may be puzzled afterwards, because the brake will work perfectly again. 2) Green fade. This only happens with new pads. Pads are made from various things bound together by a form of glue (resin). This resin is like epoxy glue. Even when it is hard, it is not yet fully cured and by heating it, it cures a bit more. Unfortunately it gives of gas in this final cure. This gas escapes from the pad as you brake and forms a gas lubricant which prevents you from stopping. It sits betweeen the pad and disc like a cushion. Green fade is the reason why pad manufacturers ask you to break the brakes in first, but applying 20 or 30 gentle stops. If you don't do this, one big braking event could see you fall thanks to green fade. Alternatively, before the pads are completely outgassed, they can still melt and then glaze the discs, which kinda ruins them forever. 3) Pad fade. Various friction materials perform better (i.e. have more friction) at different temperatures. Some work better when cold, other better when very hot. Pad fade is when you exceed the material's intended temperature and it starts to melt. Sintered metal can melt too. resin pads technically don't melt (they sublimate, which is skipping the molten state and going directly to smoke) but this process still gives you brake fade. Sintered metal vs organic pads, vs resin pads. In bicycles, most of the sintered metal pads are actually combination of resin an bits of metal and, organic pads also have some resin in. The common denominators is resin and most pads thus suffer from the bad effects of resin. Sintered metal is just some metal filings or fine metal wire that was heated to just below the metal's melting point and then crushed into shape under high pressure. Metal pads are made from brass and copper and perhaps zinc - all metals softer than steel. A bit of resin may bind them or they can be pure sintered, containing no resin. I doubt that's the case in bicycle brakes but I stand to be corrected. Sintered pads These pads last a long time but are quite aggressive to the disc. They can work at high temperatures but, require more lever pressure to operate. Some discs may not be made from metal tough enough to work with syntered metal pads and thus have a warning on them. Resin pads. Sometimes called organic pads, these are made of fibres - asbestos (now illegal), kevlar, cellulose and other secret stuff - that's all held together with resin. These pads are kind to the discs, require very little effort to brake and smell like Satan's bottom when overheated. When they overheat, they mess up the disc by coating it in hardened goo. They don't like working in the wet since they just abrade away within a couple of stops, given gritty wet conditions. This is not a pure definition, since most pads are a combination of the above two types. In cars, fancy stuff like ceramic and carbon dust is also added to the pads but that's not for here.

Ping GoLefty. I think the lubrication provided by both oils is already above good enough, so any improvements in lubrication, adhesion to parts, splashing, anti-foam additives and whathaveyou will not show up in anything you can see, feel or hear. Sometimes good enough is just good enough.

No issue whatsoever M. Even plain old mineral oil would work if you can get it is a 5 or 10W viscocity. It performs a purely lubrication function down there and as long as it can splash around, it is fine.

That looks like a Chinese knock-off bottle of oil. Probably made and decanted in Droo's garage. Look at the spelling of Castrol at the top and then at the bottom at the Ford label. Droo, I'm watching you.

Deleted. Double post

Dave Marshall, Kosmonooit and Droo already gave the answer. Reality is that the OP will have to use new spokes, he hasn't got the choice to use his old spokes since they will be the wrong length, Shimano and Hope hubs having different dimensions. Finally, only use a wheelbuilder that can explain "stress relieving." That is usually the decider issue. Without stress relieving, even the best spoke is prone to premature failure

Hmmm. On a technical forum you did offer advice that pointed to empirical values. Now you change your tune and say it was mere opinion. The OP deserves a good answer or silence if none is forthcoming. Don't bring price, fatigue and other red herrings into a simple answer.

You may want to think about this a bit. Q20 will make the seals swell and become gooey and lead to sticky pistons. The Q20 trick will work for a short while and then disaster, if enough gets in there. Problem is, Q20 is not pure silicone but a compound that also contains chlorine. A chlorine-free lubricant like Q8 (IIRC this is chrorine-free) made by the same company, will work. However, the recommended method is to use the same fluid as the rest of the system i.e. mineral oil or brake fluid. As an aside, I was taught how this seal-swelling trick can help you if you're in a fix. By applying a little bit of Q20 to a wrist-watch gasket when you've changed the battery and don't have a new gasket, it swells and goes soft, and then seals again.

These spokes are strong, you say? How much stronger are they than an equivalent 2.0-1.8-2.0 from another brand? Further, you say they last forever. How long is forever?

Not a good idea up in front. Using a disc brake produces an ejecting force on the front wheel. A standard QR compensates for that with large heads on the QR bumping up against the lawyers lips on the fork. Your nuts look like they can slip past. Also, the clamping mech on the wheels has changed and you have to redo the cone adjustment. That is, if they were adjusted properly for QR in the first place.

I see three clues on Kommandant se perd. How many are there?

This illustrates my point nicely. NoTubes says 95kg. It should be in Newtons, but nevemind that for now. Did they indicate for what spoke count? For what size Crest? A 28-spoke wheel with a 1000N max tension is weak, particularly on a 29" wheel. Even a 32 spoked one would be weak. If you want, record a plucked spoke and send me a sound file. I'll listen and comment. A tension meter is not a substitute for uncertain skills and a skilled builder doesn't need a meter. What is wrong with the edit screen on this forum? It is impossible to type and my reply to this topic is therefore stunted.

Don't just force a135m hub in there and hope that all's well. The bike won't like it. Two things can happen: the ale can break from bending to accommodate the now non-parallel drop-outs or, the frame can crank at the stressed area. You have options: 1) Respace and redish a standard 135mm hub. Shorten the axle too if you are using QR. 2) Cold set the frame to 135mm. I assume it is steel, which makes it easy. Cold setting is a fancy word for bending. Customers don't like to see "Bend Frame" on the invoice. After it has been cold set, use a frame alignment tool to ensure that the drop-outs are made parallel again.

Tension goes up as spoke count goes down. The best way to start off would be to find similar built wheel of the same size and same spoke count. Pluck the left and right spokes and listen to the tone. Match the tone approximately on the new wheel. Don't choose a crappy wheel, take one you trust. Err on the high side, you can recover from overtensioned wheel but an undertensioned wheel is a comeback. Tight as possible is too subjective and variable with spoke gauge, nipple material and spoke count. Build one and get an opinion, perhaps even a "measured" opinion. Even if you have a gauge how do you know what figures to aim for?

No. Steel does not lose elasticity with age. Cables do wear down with time, become rough. Also, they file a shortcut through the bends and become relatively longer, compared to the housing because of the shortcut and that's when the adjustment goes awry.

I'll save you some money and workshop clutter: you don't need a tensiometer. A tensiometer is of set someone who builds many of the same wheels and for some reason wants to build some consistency into the tension across the set. Factories come to mind. The average mechanic building different wheels all the time doesn't need one. How will you determine what tension you want to work to? Very few rim manufacturers publish maximum tension and even then they don't map tension against spoke quantity. Further,if tension is specified, the range is normally so large that the bottom end creates an under tensioned wheel and the top end stripped nipples. Best is to develop a feel and ear for properly tensioned spokes. Numbers without context are just numbers.

They are optional on XT gear units. If you buy the levers loose, you get the indicators in a little packet and you can choose to fit them or not. I suspect in OEM scenarios the bike assembler doesn't spec them and hence they're not supplied. If you can find someone who doesn't want his, install them on your bike. Whether you will like them is personal but I think it is a nice to have.

Like Skinny says, it time-consuming. This is best done as a labour of love by yourself. It really isn't difficult. Just choose a night when there's junk on TV (you should have a choice of about 160 days of that for the remainder of the year) and do it. You need a sharp hobby knife, some strong thread and needle, a thimble, patch and solution.

The experiment for wheel rigidity with tied-and-soldered spokes has been done, by Brandt et al. You can read the report in The Bicycle Wheel in Part II - Equations and Tests. Since you don't have a copy at hand (I assume), I'll tell you a little bit about the test. Brandt tested for stiffness laterally and tortionally. On the lateral test two identical wheels - the one tied and soldered, the other not, were fixed horizontally at the hub in a rigid fixture. A weight of 160N (say 16kgs) was suspended from a cable and tied around the rim. Deflection was measured with a dial gauge in four positions, each 90 degrees from each other and one directly at the cable. The deflection at the four positions all remained within ).05mm from each other at the four points, for both wheels. 0.05mm is smaller than the measuring error. Conclusion is that tie-and-solder is a waste of time. In the torsional test, the wheel in the same jig, had a cable wrapped around the rim like rimtape and a dial gauge attached to the loose end of the cable. A pull of 300N was exerted on the wheel and the deflection for the two wheels measured. The difference was 2%, which was exactly the variance in the measurements between the different "takes" of the experiment. Conclusion: I am sure you can fill in this gap. Why bother? As for your claim that the durability goes up, I wonder how you came to that conclusion? A properly built wheel with stress-relieved spokes have near-infinite spoke life. How would you measure an improvement on infinity without proper controls, a large sample, a homogenized environment and an artificially-accelerated load cycle?

Anton, your physics just don't measure up here. We can measure wheel stiffness in three planes: Radial, lateral and tangential. Radial stiffness is a function of rim strength and the loaded XCM rims will provide more than adequate stiffness, they are stiff rims with plenty of meat in them. Lateral stiffness is a function of the bracing angle of the spokes, the length of the spokes and the spoke cross section (thickness). For all wheels with a given rim diameter and most commercially-available hubs like Hope, there is nothing you can do to increase or decrease the stiffness. Bracing angle is what it is and hubs all have more or less same flange size or sizes so close to each other than the statistical difference is negligible. Thus, it leaves us with tangential angle (the number of crosses. The more crosses you have, the closest to a perfect tangent you have where the spokes depart from the hub flange) and spoke diameter. A 1.5mm spoke is not as stiff as a 1.8mm spoke. That's just how it is. Secondly, a 2X lacing is further away from Tangent than a 3X lacing and this will make the wheel less stiff in terms of windup, that matters in pedaling and braking forces. Saying that these are your stiffest wheels thus only tells us that you have other wheels that are less stiff. It doesn't contribute to the debate as to what influences stiffness.

PS: If you want spokes in a specific length, contact Dave Marshall here on the Hub. He has one of only three spoke cutting machines in ZA and he keeps a stock of black and silver spoke blanks that can be cut to almost any size other than ultra shorties.

Don't bother with the brand name of the spokes. As long as you buy some of the good brands such as Sapim, DT, Wheelsmith or Pillar, things are equal. Secondly, in sports cycling there is never a case where you would spec straight-gauge spokes or single butted spokes. The only exception is when you have a supply problem and you have to cut and thread very short spokes such as for 80mm deep section wheels laced radially. Thirdly, there is never a case to be made for spec'ing a mix of straight-gauge and butted. If you want a quality, durable wheel, it will be double-butted all-round. Lateral stiffness of a wheel is almost never an issue. A little bit of flex cannot be felt whilst riding and to get an idea of just how little wheels do flex is use, consider a road bike wheel with 1mm clearance between brake pad and rim. How often have you done some maneuver where the rim touches the brakes? Similarly on MTB wheels. Is there any evidence that your tyre is scraping the inside of the fork or chainstay? 29er wheels are very weak due to their 10% increase in size over 26" wheels, yet same spoke count and rim profiles as their stronger counterparts. Should you spec' say 1.5mm spokes for this wheel and insist on the lightest rim and reduce the spoke count to 28, then you will experience flex to the point where they will scrape the fork and chainstay, yet you can't feel the flex when riding.