Azonic

Yoh. Spot on.

Sarcasm on. Wow. And I thought only unsafe and untested Chinese frames failed like that. Thats what everyone else seems to believe. Sarcasm off.

Those okes were not being racist. They were acting on a RACIAL suspicion which has been shown to be rather likely. Dont blame them. Blame society and crime stats.

Care to make a racial percentage breakdown on whos more likely to jack a bike in SA? :-)

Probably none. Because how many white dudes in shorts, t-shirts and takkies form part of the bike stealing demographic...? Probably none.

Most people cant tell the difference between RACIAL and RACIST comments and opinions.

How was what you described racist? They saw a nice bike being ridden by a guy that didnt look the part. YOU put race into the story. When you were in the shop I hope you bought a bottle of shoulder chip cleaner.

Which is why all my Chinese frames are brandless. My d1ck size is safe, thanks ;-)

http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0036/pww4q35394.jpg

Your over prices Pina is just as likely to break at the headtube. Who are you going to reprimand then? Sure, Pina will send you a new frame. Because you pretty much paid them for 10 frames, they can afford to send you another one. If my Chinese frame breaks I'll just order another one, and still have R30 000 in my pocket. Also, where do you get inferior carbon from? Last year all the top "read: Expensive" brands were using Toray T700 carbon, this year they are using T800, where China is still using T700. So what makes it inferior, because the frame is 50g heavier in size XL? http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/what-difference-between-t700-t800-t900-carbon-fiber-278020.html

Extremely sad and hectic. But that's the situation in China. Millions of people that are willing to do the same jobs, or any job that's available. And because there are so many available workers, the companies get away with paying them peanuts. If they complain, get another guy to fill the position. That's the evil side of capitalism I guess. But alas, the above letter very well could just as likely come out of the "real" Pinarello factory... The woman at the factory I buy from say they get something like 1% of the sale value as commission. So for my R4300 drame, she earned R43. Very sad, but that's a situation China worked themselves into throughout the years.

I haven't worked with this company before so I don't know their testing methods, but damn. This does look good. Yes, not a "real" Pina, but if a frame is a "real" Pina purely because it made a round-trip to Italy first where someone whiped it down with a bit of Mr. Min and slapped a sticker on it that's R40 000 more than what you can get this one for..... no comment. If this rode past you in the bunch, would you be able to tell the difference? I wouldn't be able to. http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/830/030/549/549030830_545.JPG http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/267/030/549/549030267_779.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/268/030/549/549030268_019.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/269/030/549/549030269_832.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/270/030/549/549030270_425.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/271/030/549/549030271_956.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/272/030/549/549030272_548.JPG http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/462/030/549/549030462_793.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/464/030/549/549030464_262.JPG http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/922/056/541/541056922_155.jpg

Well, the factory I source my frames from follow European Bicycle Testing Standards, EN 14766:2005 for Mountain Bicycles and EN 14781:2005 for Road Racing Bicycles. I don't care what people say in terms of that some "big" brand tests their products better or whatever. The frames I source, at least, are tested more than good enough, and I deal with a relatively small company. And I wouldn't be surprised if Pinarello themselves follow the same testing methods. EN 14766.PDF

The way a BB screws into a frame wont affect its performance at all, and the newest generation of clones also have teardrop seatposts. As stated, the clones arent just made and shipped. They do go through testing before they are allowed to be exported. So where is the massive diff? The "feel"? Please.

Thought what? Got no idea where your playground attitude comes from. Serious butthurt from spending R8k on a stickerkit and sprayjob? Haai shame ma.

As if I have time to entertain you.

Stig. For sure. The thread split somewhere. I am against saying a fake IS the real thing and then selling as such. What I am saying is that a fake is good enough for most people, by far. And ppl that argue either have never seen a fake up close or never rode one. Or, already own a real one, or a rug, or a Ferrari and need to justify it.

Ok lets squash this. Piracy is bad mmmkay. Stealing is bad mmmkay. What I AM saying is that the ride you will get out of a Chinese frame is SO close to the original that it is good enough for anyone here. And ever faster guys. If you want a "real" Pina then go get yourself one. If you want a frame that gives, at least for me, 99.999% the same performance at 99.999% the same weight for about 15% if the price then get a Chinese blank frame. Simple. I've ridden allot if bikes so its a bit more than an educated guess.

Yep. Not discernable. How many fakes have you ridden? If you can tell a difference it might be because of that PowerBalance you are wearing. Apparently that also makes a discernable difference.

Pardon me while I go pour some Coka Cola out of a famous red labeled bottle, because Pick 'n Pay's half-price Cola isn't good enough for me!

I understand the legal mumbo-jumbo, and the warrentee angle. And I agree. Pinarello will call that a "real" one because you paid them to. Why would I pay R40k (and I'm using that number because I don't know what a Dogma frame costs), where I could just get a R4k frame, and IF it cracks, I can just get another one. Repeat the process 10 times, which in real life won't happen. "...excellence attached to the brand" - this adds no value for me. Building bikes for 40 years, wow. So what? Gjing Yong got the same mold down the street and he doesn't have to upkeep a fancy website and marketing campaings. Maybe I'm just stingy, don't know and don't care. Won't be buying a brand ever again. And by the amount of hubbers that PM me to ask for importing tips, I'm sure plenty others are going the same angle.

Smart Alec here. The blank Dogma I posted, the frame is super rigid. Push against the crankset from the side and the frame barely flexes. There are zero, to very little Pros on this forum. IF there was a "massive" difference, no-one of us here have the legs to be able to feel that difference. And quite frankly I'm not interested in spending an extra R36k just so for a warm'n'fuzzy feeling inside that I'm riding an "original" (...which is also made in China). Flip, I'd actually feel like a Wally for not saving that cash and spending it elsewhere.

"Probably" ? What makes you say that? Because Pinarello says so on their big bucks, colourful website? Versus a blurry photo taken with a fake Nokia phone in a Chinese factory? No points won there bud. "With the fakes you have no idea where it was made and what the quality control is." ........and with the "real" ones..... you do? Or again, assumed because its a "famous" brand? The Chinese frames adhere to EN Standards and have to go through the Chinese equivalent of the SABS before its allowed to be exported. I've had indepth discussions with people at the factories as I was getting one myself and didn't want to buy a lemon. Most Chinese frames use Toray T700 carbon, where the very newest bikes on the market use T800. This is why the Chinese frames are +/- 50g heavier than the "real", as you would put it. But, that 50g makes the slightly older version of carbon just as strong as the never revision. I know at least 6 guys with blank frames, some strong roadies and MTB'ers. No hassles what so ever.

I havent ridden the bike yet, its a mate of mine's. But from what I heard from other mates, no complaints.

Just past R4k. Its worth bringing in two frames, like getting one and a mate also getting a frame (29'er, or something if that's what you want). It really helps with shipping and the box they ship the stuff in can take two frames.