bruce

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

Voting 'No' on this, because I believe (for reasoan well documented) that this is a misguided attempt at improving the situation between cyclists and other road users. This promotes segregated cycling which is, in my mind, more dangerous than integrated cycling.

Race:Duration: 02:31:17Work: 2866 kJTSS: 244.1 (intensity factor 0.984)Norm Power:354VI: 1.12Distance: 103.629 kmElevation Gain: 943 mElevation Loss: 1576 mGrade: -0.6 % (-633 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 01094316wattsCadence: 2021688rpmSpeed: 9.573.541.1kphAltitude: 4928619mTemperature: 132115.5CelsiusFox Hill:Duration: 22:19Work: 522 kJTSS: 47.8 (intensity factor 1.133)Norm Power:408VI: 1.05Distance: 11.35 kmElevation Gain: 301 mElevation Loss: 22 mGrade: 2.5 % (279 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 61094390wattsCadence: 2017284rpmSpeed: 17.758.130.5kphAltitude: 647926810mTemperature: 131413.6CelsiusInchanga:Duration: 05:12Work: 125 kJTSS: 11.1 (intensity factor 1.133)Norm Power:408VI: 1.01Distance: 2.605 kmElevation Gain: 80 mElevation Loss: 2 mGrade: 3.0 % (78 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 167587402wattsCadence: 7410387rpmSpeed: 27.746.330.1kphAltitude: 690770726mTemperature: 141414Celsius Attack & Bridge to Andrew:Duration: 07:49Work: 183 kJTSS: 16.9 (intensity factor 1.138)Norm Power:410VI: 1.05Distance: 4.722 kmElevation Gain: 86 mElevation Loss: 40 mGrade: 1.0 % (48 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 78939389wattsCadence: 5911184rpmSpeed: 15.167.736.2kphAltitude: 705751732mTemperature: 151515Celsiusbruce2009-10-19 09:57:51

Race:Duration: 04:02:52Work: 3259 kJTSS: 219.1 (intensity factor 0.736)Norm Power:265VI: 1.18Distance: 103.218 kmElevation Gain: 1915 mElevation Loss: 1910 mGrade: 0.0 % (5 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 0947224wattsCadence: 2918283rpmSpeed: 0185.625.4kphAltitude: 132515041375m

I'm wondering if these amino acids are beneficial to the human psychology in the same way magic mushrooms are?

Just to clarify. There is NO Cyclelab group on weekday mornings. There is a group that leaves the Engen at the top of Main Rd Bryanston at 5:00am. There are a lot of CycleLab riders in this group, but also plenty of Club 100 riders as well as Dimension Data, Northcliff Cycles etc etc. Because of the number of CycleLab riders, Lovemore (the CycleLab driver) follows the bunch some mornings to help anybody that may have a problem. He ends up helping many non-CycleLab riders as well. This ride is not organised or controlled by CycleLab, and CycleLab can't be held responsible for what people in this group do. Lovemore is there to help people.

Race:Duration: 02:33:37Work: 2430 kJTSS: 198 (intensity factor 0.879)Norm Power:317VI: 1.2Distance: 102.885 kmElevation Gain: 560 mElevation Loss: 548 mGrade: 0.0 % (12 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 01152264wattsHeart Rate: 01627bpmCadence: 2021885rpmSpeed: 7.471.140.2kphAltitude: 140115291439mTemperature: 183526.9CelsiusErtjiesberg:Duration: 04:13Work: 115 kJTSS: 12 (intensity factor 1.308)Distance: 1.655 kmElevation Gain: 90 mElevation Loss: 0 mGrade: 5.4 % (90 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 214851455wattsCadence: 649577rpmSpeed: 16.433.223.6kphAltitude: 143515251480mTemperature: 272928CelsiusSprint:Duration: 00:21Work: 19 kJDistance: 376 mElevation Gain: 0 mElevation Loss: 6 mGrade: -1.6 % (-6 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 5521098917wattsCadence: 92111105rpmSpeed: 56.469.764.5kphAltitude: 144414501448mTemperature: 343434Celsius

Was discussing this issue yesterday. We are closer to being internationally competitive at the ladies and junior levels. The reason for this is that our racing here in S.A. for these categories is closer to the levels experienced internationally. BUT, at Elite level, our guys are racing 100km fun rides, while the Euro guys are racing 250km 6 to 7 hour classics. And we wonder why our local guys battle with the step up when they fly over there and get thrown in the deep end. It's not to say we don't have the talent, I genuinely believe we do! The gap between our Elite level racing, and international level is just too big.

It still happens, because I think a lot of motorists are not aware just how dangerous it is to overtake when a cyclist is oncoming. But I have certainly found more and more that a motorist starts to pull out, see's you are there, and pulls back in. When a car choses to overtake towards me, even though they have seen me, I just make a bit of a 'why?' gesture to try to alert them to the fact that they are doing something that is dangerous and may not be aware of it. No need to make rude hand signals etc. I also tend to wait until a car coming from behind gets a bit closer and starts to slow. I then pull a bit closer to the side of the road, wave a hand to acknowledge that the car slowed, and pull out a bit when they have gone past.

This is where it all breaks down! People on this forum perpetuate the belief that a bicycle has less rights on the road than a car because a car can do more damage to a bicycle than the inverse. When you are driving your car do you pull over to the side of the road when a truck is behind you' date=' endangering yourself because the truck is bigger than you? A bicycle has a legal right to be on the road. Cyclists do not have to have licenses, because they are not a threat to other road users. We do not have to pay road taxes because we don't use petrol, and we don't do any damage to the road. This does not give cyclists the right to cause problems for other road users, but it also does not give other road users the right to endanger our lives! Be visible, use signals, and take up your rightful place on the road. You'll find that other road users respect you more![/quote'] While you are 100% correct that a bicycle has the same rights on the road as a car. But no matter how many times you climb up on the soap box to shout it, it will not save you from certain severe injury or death when being hit by a car regardless of who was at fault. The arrogance perpetuated by the larger portion of road cyclists I see by simply placing their own lives in needless danger, simply to be right ? Heading home on the M3 the other day going down Wynberg hill was cyclist riding ON the yellow line, with at least a full car's width to his left ie. the entire emergency lane with car's passing him at speeds anywhere from 80km's/h to 130km's/h. Why on earth would someone willingly place themselves in potential danger like that, other than the pure arrogance of "I have as much right to you on this road" ? Yes we all have a right to the road, but if I feel that there is some danger to my life when on the road whether I am in the right or wrong I will attempt to take myself out of that situation, not stay there because you must realise that I have the right to be there and you should act accordingly. So yes..... if there is a large truck behind me going faster than I am, I will move over. Better to let the danger pass me than be stuck in front of it and a possible lunatic/deranged driver. At the end of the day it's not about wrong or right. It's about either being dead or alive. You choose. You really haven't bothered to read through the argument have you?

My point is that riding too close to the side of the road (and I would say that 40cm is too close) encourages more dangerous situations. Motor cars do not slow' date=' and do not change their line when overtaking you on a bicycle, because they see plenty of space in the same lane, and don't bother to move over. The same applies for oncoming traffic. Cars do not see you as part of the traffic, and they pull out to overtake when you are oncoming - an even more dangerous situation because speed differentials are even worse. Some interesting reading: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010494.html [/quote'] Interesting article! I've read similar and my 40cm is based around the "part of the scenery versus part of the road" debate. Too close to the pavement and cars don't give you room - too far and you become a hazard. It's relative number - how far do you think is safe? I do most of my riding alone, so I may not be representative of the general cycling population. I ride closer to a metre into the road when no shoulder. When there is a shoulder I probably ride 50cm from the yellow line. I have very few altercations with motorists, and feel more vulnerable when riding in bunches because people are all over the place, than when I ride alone.

Fair point, but the ladies also need to come to the party!

My point is that riding too close to the side of the road (and I would say that 40cm is too close) encourages more dangerous situations. Motor cars do not slow, and do not change their line when overtaking you on a bicycle, because they see plenty of space in the same lane, and don't bother to move over. The same applies for oncoming traffic. Cars do not see you as part of the traffic, and they pull out to overtake when you are oncoming - an even more dangerous situation because speed differentials are even worse. Some interesting reading: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010494.html

This is where it all breaks down! People on this forum perpetuate the belief that a bicycle has less rights on the road than a car because a car can do more damage to a bicycle than the inverse. When you are driving your car do you pull over to the side of the road when a truck is behind you' date=' endangering yourself because the truck is bigger than you? A bicycle has a legal right to be on the road. Cyclists do not have to have licenses, because they are not a threat to other road users. We do not have to pay road taxes because we don't use petrol, and we don't do any damage to the road. This does not give cyclists the right to cause problems for other road users, but it also does not give other road users the right to endanger our lives! Be visible, use signals, and take up your rightful place on the road. You'll find that other road users respect you more![/quote'] why do we pay taxes becuase we use petrol..... maybe you can enlighten on this????? Because road taxes are part of the petrol levy maybe? Alternatively tolls are used, but that is a small percentage of overall roads and the only time I ride on a toll road is in the Bakwena race.

This is not as clear cut an issue as it first appears. Take for example the Rebel TT series. Same prize money for men and woman, and big prize money too, several grand. Three ladies bothered to pitch up (and not a single elite), so the organiser got a few hundred rand in entries, and forked out several thousands in prize money. Same thing happened at Worlds View last year. The total entries from the ladies was about 1 tenth of the prize money's handed out.

Fair point!

Be visible' date=' use signals, and take up your rightful place on the road. You'll find that other road users respect you more![/quote'] Bruce, you are right. So is Eldron - I believe what was inferred in his post was that you need to ride defensively. Defensive riding does not mean that you should not be assertive. Not being assertive leads to dangerous situations. There is no fight between bicycles and motorcars, bicycles are entitled to their space and do not have to yeild in every situation.bruce2009-09-29 02:43:13

This is where it all breaks down! People on this forum perpetuate the belief that a bicycle has less rights on the road than a car because a car can do more damage to a bicycle than the inverse. When you are driving your car do you pull over to the side of the road when a truck is behind you, endangering yourself because the truck is bigger than you? A bicycle has a legal right to be on the road. Cyclists do not have to have licenses, because they are not a threat to other road users. We do not have to pay road taxes because we don't use petrol, and we don't do any damage to the road. This does not give cyclists the right to cause problems for other road users, but it also does not give other road users the right to endanger our lives! Be visible, use signals, and take up your rightful place on the road. You'll find that other road users respect you more!

The "lane sharing" paragraph is going to cause some high blood pressure debate! Well, what many people here propose at curteous, is actually more dangerous. A bicycle is a vehicle, behave like one!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

Race:Duration: 33:36:00Work: 658 kJTSS: 67.9 (intensity factor 1.101)Norm Power:396VI: 1.21Distance: 21.731 kmElevation Gain: 235 mElevation Loss: 227 mGrade: 0.0 % (9 m)MinMaxAvgPower: 01207326wattsCadence: 2017387rpmSpeed: 5.165.338.8kphPace 00:5511:4601:33min/kmAltitude: 161116441629mCrank Torque:0140.336N-mTemperature: 253526.3Celsius