Captain Fastbastard Mayhem

I've been wrong many times before, I just admit it. It feels good... truly. And I get the benefit of learning a "better way" or the correct information. It's called PERSONAL GROWTH

That last one I STRONGLY disagree with. If I as a reasonable person ignore him in future occurrences of not using a light, I am not carrying out my moral obligation of making my, and other road users, lives more safe. Likewise for a repeat traffic light offender. And a thief. And any number of immoral activities which I KNOW are wrong. If I stop admonishing because he "doesn't want to take my advice" then I am no better than him in that instance. Case in point - the state of the drivers on our roads was borne SOLELY out of that sort of attitude. People KNOW it's wrong, and yet they don't do anything about it anymore because "oh, I've told him once, he has a right not to accept my advice" Bollocks. Would you say that of a drunk driver? No? Yes? Same thing. Endangering other road users, and you have an OBLIGATION to make sure that you do as much as possible in order to ensure he doesn't drive. Take the keys away. Whatever. The exact same thing can be said of a rider who does not use a light.

Oh, no. It was just pertinent considering the title and content of the thread. But (as we've seen previously on other threads) it has also impacted peoples' ability to READ, Digest information, form a reliable opinion based on sound reasoning and accept that they may, in some point in their lives, be WRONG.

Exactly, TB. And it is that same "I am more important than you" attitude that has so ruined the current population, and resulted int he complete lack of common sense in vast swathes of road users.

It IS all that was said in the first post. The rest of it was providing context and reasons for using a light, in that the rider was and is the typical "cyclist" one sees, and as a result will be the person who we see as being more at risk of being eliminated due to his own stupidity.

Well then why not say that in the frikkin first place! Say his words were a bit strong, instead of coming in all ArchedBackChinOut and saying he's acting like a douche and only presenting one side of the story, then getting abrasive when people take you on as a perceived sympathiser with the roadie guy? Way to get a point across.

Which is, as I said before, how morally correct beliefs / constructs sometimes need to be imparted. If I tell you enough times that you should have your lights on after dark, it eventually becomes a habit. You then realise it IS the right thing to do. Just how you educate a child when they do wrong. No, XXX, that's bad. You mustn't do that 'cos of XYZ Peter Pan goldilocks. You must do this instead. Simplistic example, but it puts the point across. Sometimes a "bully-like" approach is the only way.

I agree one cannot MAKE him, as in physically take him and force him to buy one and install it on his bike, but in terms of the morally correct thing to do, I believe that one (Hairy in this instance) should take every chance he can get to carry on riling said rider, until such time as he does buy a light. Ostracize him, effectively, until such time as he realises that, by using a light, he is in fact contributing to the safety of fellow cyclists, road users, and pedestrians. Which is, once again, how moral fibre is reinforced. By MAKING someone realise, through demonstration, example, lecture or otherwise, what the correct course of action should be. And in terms of your "same mindset as mob justice" argument. That is also flawed. The mindset of one who entertains mob justice is VERY far removed from that of one who wants to impart common sense or moral fibre, and is in fact a responsible citizen. Mob justice is a very different animal.

Road cyclist is a repeated offender of not using a light in abject lighting conditions. Hairy decided to attempts a friendly conversation, a number of times, and was told to sod off. Subsequent conversation on how the roadie (he was riding a road bike) was a tjop due to 1: Not riding in the designated bike lane 2: Insulting Hairy and not using a light when it is common sense to use one. 3: Not being able to back up his claim of pro-dom

It's called responsible citizenry. Not mob justice. The 2 are very far removed. It's also how morality is formed - through the evolution of perception and actions. It is a moral obligation to ensure that there is less death on our roads. If that means educating people on the use of lights, the error of running red lights & stop signs, driving in yellow lanes etc, then that is what responsible citizens have to do. By your reasoning, you're saying that you would not expect a person to help a victim of muggery, or a victim of kidnapping, or someone who jumps red lights etc because there are people in place who are paid to uphold the law, prosecute and chase criminals and rescue kidnapped children / parents etc. Responsible citizenry means the intervention in certain instances in order to ensure the safety of fellow citizens, amongst other things. Mob Justice, however, is the act of judging that offender and submitting them to a heat of the moment, knee jerk reaction to their wrongdoings - think of the Necklacing incidents in the townships, or the stoning of thieves etc. 2 totally different things - which you should best remember.

On that, we agree. On the light issue, clearly not. If someone thinks it is common sense to ride around after dark without any form of illumination, considering the level of death on our roads and the increasing occurrence of cyclists being mown down when "the driver did not see them" then I'm afraid that common sense is lacking in that particular person. And no, I don't thrive on conflict. It invigorates me, sure. But not for the reason you're thinking. It makes me want to find a way to come to a common understanding. Criticism forces me to (potentially) adjust my stance on an issue. I say potentially, as some criticism is warranted, whereas other has no grounds whatsoever and should be considered moot.

Can we at least agree that the person in question should have a light? If not, why not? If this is directed at me (which it seems to be) then I implore you to try harder. I thrive on criticism.

Only after he buys a light. Until then he should expect a comment / chirp each time he is passed by other, more responsible cyclists. Same as I would chirp a guy who runs a red, or a car that drives in the yellow lane etc. It's just common sense.

Personally, I don't think it was pettiness to begin with. H was just saying that the oke is endangering lives due to him not using a light before / after dark. His comments re MTB / Knobbly / Road weapon were just references to how the cyclist felt fit to categorise them as "beginners" and subsequently got his ass handed to him. As for your response, well, that was completely uncalled for, considering that the OP and subsequent posts were regarding a plea for the rider to adopt a safer approach to his morning / evening commute.

There you go. Just in case you have a bad memory, as well as a bad case of self importance.

And someone doesn't understand how he could get moered by someone handing him his own foot... Anyway. Big up Hairy, for attempting to get one more cyclist to get lights on their bike. Far too many cyclists being converted to a tar-canvas, and we need to make sure that we are noticed not for being douchebags, but law abiding citizens. And that includes making ones-self visible in sub-standard conditions such as diminished light.

Ant, if you don't know Hairy, I can assure you that his people skills are well above board.

Clearly the finer nuances of wordplay are lost one such as yourself. Again. READ. If "it" gets handed to you, it would be reasonably logical to assume that said foot would be lodged right up inside your keester. Therefore, you would need to remove said foot from said ass in order to resume normal life.

Never was an MTB / Roadie debate, man. Always was a "you're a douche for not using lights" debate. The chirp about knobblies was as a result of the offender chirping Hairy re his "beginner" status, and the resultant ass-whooping he got when Hairy & co would up their legs and showed him who was the real beginner. THAT's the MTB reference. Next time you tjoon someone, make sure to READ the post first. It might help you take your foot our your ass when it gets handed to you.

I fail to see any threat in Hairy's posts here? Merely looking out for fellow riders and telling the guy that he's being a dumbass. You flash drivers who leave their lights off when it gets dark, no? Why not tell a fellow cyclist to put his on?

They're spanish...

Course it is. Gives you FIRE in your veins!

Nice buddy you have.

Your concept of freedom of speech is significantly flawed, peanut butter. Doesn't extend to saying whatever the hell you like and bugger the consequences.

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