Slave

Experiment results. (I measured various tyres on Teeny's and my bike last night.) Teeny has a Vottoria 23c tyre on back and Conti Sport 25c on Front. I have bonts back and front. Both 25C Tyre make Size Loaded Unloaded Vitoria 23c 2076 2104 Conti 25c 2090 2101 Bont 25c 2078 2106 Based on this, I assume then that the Cateye and possiby other cycle computer manufacturers use 2105 as the default measurement because it is pretty close to being standard onmost unloaded tyres. I know that rider weight and tyre pressure will have an effect on the overall rolling circumference and the difference therein. I guess that my tyres have deflated some since I did the measurement on Sunday. (Almost 100 k's on the road.) I found it interesting though that a 23c and 25c had very little difference on the unloaded tyre measurement. JB. Feel free to comment.

Cool. Nothing in the Alberton Area. Come on Southern dudes. Let's get involved. Let's go out and ride in this critical mass thing.

TNT. I agree with you. Generally speaking the taxi drivers are a law unto themselves. (genrally speaking of course.) I have to ask if this thread is just racist though. Here's my reason. It appears that the child killed is white. Where were we when a whole taxi full of black scholl children died several months ago? ( I wasn't a hub member then so I have no idea if it was taken up in quite the same way as this incident.) This whole thing about lawlessness is the result that criminals now have rights previously denied them. What did we do in December when so many died as a result of negligent driving over the holiday period? We can whinge, bitch and whine as much as we like, nothing wil change until the people appointed to uphold the law do so and I think we all know how that will turn out. AS long as criminals are in power (and I'm not just talking about JZ here) nothing will change. The rot is permeating society at an alarming rate and we see people getting away with stuff and pretty soon, we are doing it too. If a law was passed for cyclists to have there ID on them all the time and they got pulled off by the cops for jumping redtrffic lights and stop streets, then we would think twice before doing it. The fact that we get away with it means we will do it again and again. The law has to change and it has to be enforced. What we are seeing now is evidence of the whole system being wrong. During the previous government (regime for those who like the term better) the ANC had a policy of making the country ungovernable. Seems the chickens have come home to roost.

Ek stem saam. (I agree) There is a general attitude of lawlessness and not only from motorists. We just have to look at ourselves to see that the attitudes of many are wrong. (This is not an indictment of all cyclists, just a general comment.) You see someone (cyclist) riding without a helmet. You aks where is the hat dude? And he tells you to depart sexually, in short, rythmic movemenets from the hips. That's the wrong attitude. Now aks yourself, why? Why do people break the law. Well, chances are pretty dam good they will not be caught. And if they are, you just give the cop a hard time, or a bribe and you're home free. And if he doesn't take the bribe, bribe the person n court to "loose the file". There are just too many issues and if the cop gets his Tip (salary at the end of the month. He went to the office every day to get it. Whether earned or not is irrelevant. To get law and order back on track, there has to be a fundamental shift in attitudes and some form of punishment has to be instituted. Amonetary fine is not the answer. Community service, maybe. I dunno dudes. I just dunno. Like I had all the answers and then some ijit changed the questions. Now I'm searching all over again.Slave2Love2009-02-24 06:50:56

It's a bit more compicated. To the best of my knowledge, the driver is merely the driver. He does not usually own the taxi. The owner employs driver and demands a certain amount of money per day. It is usually a ridiculous amount and the driver has to drive like a madman to achieve his "target". If he fails..... HKGK (or is that HKBGK (hier kom baie groot K@K.)) To increase profit margins, inferior spares are used and maintenence is very "few and far between." After all, the owner is not at risk. It is the "cargo" and the driver so why would he worry about the lives of others. So, it is not only the drivers at fault. Yes, they are the ones piloting the vehicles often kamikaze style. And then of course, all the current systemicproblems of corrupt cops, traffic officials (issuing public driving permits, false licences, etc, etc. There are a huge number of problems to fix. On the more cynical side. Less of them to vote for the Chimpanzee that is about to become our new pres. Oops, So sorry. Did not mean to insult the intelligence of Chimps. Now the animal rights dudes are going to be after me. Helmet, (check) gloves, (check) outa here.

I have not read and will not read the entire thread. If my comments appear to be a duplicate, then that is by coincidence. I am amazed that people actually get into some of these vehicles, I truly am. But then desperate times call for desperate measures. In my opinion, the only way to effectively get (minibus) taxis under control is for the cops to take the vehicles off the road. I have seen a number of roadblocks in and aound our areas recently where taxis are clearly the only targets. They get pulledoff, papers checked etc. So, if there are outtanding fines, or if the vehicle is in any way not roadworthy, impound it. The owner can only reclaim it once the fines have been paid. It the taxi is pulled of because he was doing something illegal, impound the vehicle and release it only once the fine has been paid. If the vehicle is in such a bad condition (and I have seen some in VERY bad shape) impound it and invite the owner to watch it be incinerated. If the taxi users were not so dependent on the taxis, they could boycott them. (When I look at some of the vehiclesand the condition, I would rather walk than get into a vehicle like that.) The taxi users should "klap a driver sukkend" if he jumps a traffic light, stop streetor in some way endangers their lives. (they do after all, outnumber the driver 16 to 1.) This is my idea for all drivers involved in accidents causing injury. Arrest driver, put him / her in court. If guilty of negligent driving, make em work a community service where they serve x number of hours working in a trauma unit on Friday and Sat nights. Then they can get to see how a human body gets to look when it is in an accident. X will be bigger the moreserious the driving offence is. In fact, possibly this should be done to anyone convicted of speeding, driving under the influence or reckless driving. Now the thing is to get the authorities to buy into this. The way they currently go about doing their work. NEVER gonna happen. There are some very deep sytemic problems that need to be resolved. Can a new government impliment some kind of law and order in a clearly lawless society? IF so, who? Our next vote has to be a very responsible one. I am trying to get all the disenchanted ANC supportersat the office to see that not voting is in fact the wrong thing to do. Personally I bleieve that voting for Cope is equally daft, but like that's just my 5 zim dollars worth.

Ah, we live and learn. JB, you are a mine of useful information. Once again, this proves that the assumption is the fother of all muck-ups. Car tyres (yeah, I know big diffs, four wheels etc, etc.) the size designates width, profile and rim size. So a 175X65X14 is 175 mm wide, has a profile of 65% of tyre width and fits a 14 inch rim. I, very stoopidly assumed, that bike tyres would be about a similar thing. Based on the 27X1 and 1 quarter size and theory. So, based on this ridiculous assumption, I assumed that 23c and 25 c tyres would have referred to the width of the tyre,while 700 refers to rim size / diameter or some other as yet unkown criteria. All is good though, I learned stuff. See, I am just like a computer. You have to punch data into me. Edit; BTW, JB, the sound was somewhere between a pfffft and the sound of a peanut butter sarmie landing flat on the tiled (and freshly washed) kitchen floor. Tube split along one of the seams. (damn cheap "made in china" junk.'nuff said).Slave2Love2009-02-24 03:07:38

shebeen, the velo 8's only have tyre size as a coice. There is no specialist calibration that you can use to set them up differently. The micro cordless can take the exact measurement of the tyre. Both velo 8's are set for 700c wheels. That is as close as it gets. 700c not 700 X 23 or 25 c. Just plain old 700 c. So one would expect them to have the same setting. And it's not as though we used different tyres,wheels or bike. I just intechanged the unts on my bike with the same wheel, tyre and tyre pressure. Go figure. JB, I have noticed that the 25 c seems to have more tyre (If I can put it that way.) between the road and the rim. 23 c's by comaprison seem to be lower profile than 25 c's. At my weight of now 91 kg, the 25 c is a little more comfortable and I prefer the overall feel of the ride on 25's. I was checking out the "table" and the closest measurements in the 700 range is the 700 X 20C. Made a mistook a while ago and bought a 20c tube. Dam thing was so skinny it popped inside my 23c tyre when I was inflating it. Fortuantely no damage to anything other than tube. We live and learn. Now I check the boxes and the contents. Some jokers like to switch stuff around in those boxes on the shelves.

Fair comment. What made me wonder was my teenager has a catey velo 8 (new model) and I have an older velo 8 (purchased in 2006). Same universal fitting so they are interchangable. I tried them both and on average, the older vello 8 reads 1 km/h more than the micor cordless, while the newer velo 8 reads on average 0.7 to 0.8 more. Small stuff I know,but one would have to say that 23c is probably the most poluar size of tyre, while I have a preference for the 25c. I just think that the tables they use for default settings is slightly out of true. I'll let you know the result of my experiment tomorrow. I will measure all my tyres, loaded and then unloaded.

I realise that 11 mm is not a big difference, but it's obviously significant enough to make a difference. Clearly, 2085 seems to be a norm then. The question now arises as to why cateye manufacturers put the default setting for 700c wheels at 2096? According to the owner manual for 23c tyres, they have the circ at 2096 and for 25c tyres, 2105. Are some 700c tyres genuinely 2096 mm in circumferance? JB, would the loaded and unloaded weight make that much of a difference?Slave2Love2009-02-24 01:03:56

I'm with the fast devil on this one.

Apparently you weren't wearing your helmet.

Welcome moo. It seems to be a common problem. Something about being in pretty much the same position for most of the time. Try to flex you hands every now and then. I tend to lift one arm at a time and flex my fingers on longer rides. (I only do thiswhen I have the lame / numb hand syndorme to remind me). It helps. Also try to change your grip while riding and "move around on the bike. It works for me.

Edman, that Garmin of yours is clever. They make em smart these days.

Thanks JB. I was worried there for a bit. I think the generally accepted circ for a 700 c is in the region of 2096. Maybe I misread something somewhere. Not at all unlikely for me. Phew. Worries over, I will leave the setting as it is then. Glad to find I got it about right. Thanks again.

I have a Bont 25c tyre on the front wheel of my bike (Race Lite). (Yeah TNT,serious overkill for my 900 year old Beast.) So, over the weekend I managed to get a micro wireless cateye (two things now on the bike that exceed it's monetary value). So I measured the rolling circumference of the tyr and came up with 2085. Seems to be out of synch with the generally accepted rolling circumference of a 700c wheel and tyre. What have I done wrong? I was on the bike and tied fishing line around the wheel so I had a nice "thin line"to work with. Made nice thin pencil lines on paper (Stuck to the garage floor with celotape) Measured the distance between the lines. I think the genarally accpeted measurement for 700c wheels is closer to 2096 mm. Eish, talk about foncused.

CS. I agree. It is very easy for us to say that motorists are also agro and arrogant. Let's face it, it is pretty much a South African phenomenon right now. Road rules are there "only for the law aiding citizens" is another. We all need to stop pointing fingers at each other and recognise the areas where we are wrong and work on correcting those. It is utterly irrelevant who is in the wrong or the right when you have a high speed meeting between a bike and a motor vehicle. We come second every time. We are the ones at risk. Those are indisputable facts. We want respect, we gotta earn it. Period. It matters not at all who else is wrong. We need to be right and we need to behave like humans, not animals. (Sometimes, I think animals bahave better than us. They go according to their instincts. We have the power of reason, or do we?) Then maybe, when we have some respect, we can start to make things better. When our doorstep is clean, we can approach law enforcement and get them to try and help us clean up the roads and get rid of the hooglians. We will never achieve anything until we get our sh!t together. We need to do this immediately, if not sooner.

My last comment on this: We, the cyclists do not own the road, no matter how much some will differ with that assessment. The fact that we have the same right to use the road does not help when get hurt. What the "arrogant ijits" brigade fail to understand is that we are the ones at risk, regardless of rights. It is no comfort at all when one can justify that a cyclist was killed and the motorist was wrong. How does that ease the pain and suffering of the family and friends? If a cyclist winds up in a wheelchair, will it make any difference that the cyclist was hurt by a bad motorist. I do however, advocate that we all try to be a little more tollerant and understanding with each other. Just because the boss gave me a hard time today, doesn't give me the excuse to take it out on that lone cyclist training his wheels off for his big race. Or take out that ijits windscreen with my pocket full of ball bearings. I think the point I'm tryin got make here is that life is tough and we all need to be less agro in general terms. If we all civil and polite to each other, the world will become a better place. Sure, we always gonna have the absolute AH who is gonna irritate us, but smile and wave, smile and wave. Some people just can't help being d!kcheads and no amount of ranting is going to change that. There are flaws in the system and we need to address the system, not each other. If we take each other out, then we just get down to the same level as the d!kcheads and they win. Let's rather address the system and try to change it that way, as well as by being good examples to other road users. Leaders lead, Losers rant. So the choice is ours, we gonna lead or loose. It's all about attitude.

I have e-mailed Highveld to ask for help on a drive time slot under the guise of it being a public service thing. They are very good at highlighting the fact that cyclists are out there training for the 94.7 but nothing for the Argus. Let's hope they are keen to support tihs idea. I'd also like to take credit for this thread, but Tarman planted the seed yesterday with his post on us not helping ourselves. It made me think.

SP. I like the idea of taking it to the schools. I recall going to some traffic centre in Primary school and riding a bike around a track that had traffic lights and all that stuff. I, don't think they do that sort of thing any more. It also occurs to me that drivers convicted of drivng offenses (Speeding and traffic light jumping) should be sentenced to community service rather than being fined. The community service should take the form of being forced to work in the casualty wards of hospitals on Friday and Saturday nights so they can witness more of what happens to human bodies in hgh speed collisions.

Thanks guys. Slowpoke, in our country of 40 some odd million, TB, this forum, the motoring forum etc, only have so many members. I'd like to think that we are mostly, the converted. There are still a lot of road users (motor, cycle and pedestrians) who don't know - possbly don't care. I'm thinking a drive to reach more is what we need.

I propose we put our collective wisdom together and put forward some ideas on educating road users (all of them) on the importance of road safety and the need to obey the rules. With the whole lycra vs steel debate, we actually found some common gripes and I believe that we can do something to improve road safety for all of us. What would be a good (the best) forum? (TV, motoring mags, bike mags, cycling mags) Who has contacts in these areas that can get exposure to highlight just how many people don't obey the rules or don't care about the rules? This is an issue that affects all of us. Some more than others, but it does affect all of us. The "Arive Alive" campain is only highly visible at Easter and December. We need the police to do their work and do it properly, all the time and we need to makesure that as many road users as possible understand the rules. Please, lets not use this topic to vent frustation and anger. Let's use it for ideas. Any takers?

Done. Will post the link shortly. Edit: http://www.carforums.co.za/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=99&p=2067#p2067Slave2Love2009-02-18 05:12:38