Woofie

Yep, Thanks David! We need more people in the world like you. There is very few people that will go out of their way like you do to help people. I am busy typing a memo of how I think the seeding should be adjusted. I started yesterday, but I am still looking at race results. I will post it here when I am done so that you guys can pull it apart, but then hopefully we will have a complete draft by the end of it that David can present to the PPA at the meeting. I recon we should try and get David onto the ppa board (since it is a NPO, I think normal people can get elected) At least then we will have a proper hub link to the ppa and we will have someone representing us that knows how we feel. Shot for the hard work man!!

Brilliant!! I have also dealt with them twice and I have always had great service.

My comments in Red

https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=84286

link?

Ok, just make sure that any ideas you have also have some positive ideas how we can make it better as well. We will have to have our own little "board" meeting. Maybe over a piece of braaivleis and we will have to collectively agree with the ideas that we are pushing forward.

mmm... There is going to be alot of noise. I think what we need to do is create a list of the top 5 things that we would like to be changed. Then we can chat about how to present our complaints. My first complaint is the thing that has plagued me since the beginning. ----- THE SEEDING SYSTEM. ---- I have a couple of ideas of some things they should change before throwing it out the window. Ok, what else?

ya, I have also been using the racetec calendar for ages now because the ppa one hasnt worked since the site upgrade about a year ago. Totally agree about the twitter/facebook/rss feed/the hub/etc etc etc. Its like they are in the freaking dark ages. No wonder the seeding run takes so long, they probably have some tannie sitting in the back stamping all the cards to work out the records ya, lets go and park our cars by the start of the next race and block it off and toi toi. mmmm..... thinking about it that already happened with the end of the simonsberg ride..... At the moment it feels like we are dealing with eskom. Just watch, the ppa is probably going to push up their fees now as well. Does anyone else belong to the dirtopia/amarider clan? It would almost not be a bad thing if they branched out into a "roadtopia" as well Where do you guys think the major stuffup is? ppa or racetec? If there was a new racing body that was established, who would we use for timing? Is racetec good for using? Are they dominated by the poorly organised ppa? I dont see a reason why we can even have multiple race bodies and even timing systems at races. Its like having a formula one and everyone can only drive toyota's.......

Yep yep. Do you think we should make more of a formal thing that we can put through to them with a list of names saying that we are not going to renew or race ppa races until x,y,z happens? All this talk is good, but if no one actually goes to them with a list of demands and unless we "strike" like the rest of the country then nothing is going to happen. David, put your ideas down what you would like to see and I really think we need to action something otherwise we are still going to be complaining like this in 2 years time. *Oh, how much % seeding increase are we going for in the strike* haha

I think there is a number of people that are going to be pondering not to renew before we start getting better service.

One Side The Other How much is a new hub? Please tell me it is going to be cheaper for insurance to give me a new set......

I agree. It hasnt been a total balls up. But there is a few little things that would make it work better.

Absolutely. They should take every event on the calendar. And if they have more than a certain amount of entrants Road maybe 600 and mtb maybe 300 they should work out a persons average across all of those events and use that as a base. It will be far more accurate then. Also the whole thing of them adjusting the seeding for flatter compared to hilly events is bull as well. A heavier rider that has more muscle than a mountain goat will dominate on the flatter rides and the other way around on the big hills. Which is the stronger rider? Both are. They are each stronger in their own discipline. So by them going and weighting races by how hilly they are is actually very unfair.

That doesnt make sense. The winningtime will still be the winningtime. For the second starting group to beat the first group it is something that will happen so rarely. (You have a better chance of getting an amazing seeding from the PPA). Something would normally have to go wrong in the elite bunch for something like that to happen. The SV won the westcoast express last year. But I believe that the elites were forced to stop at one point? But otherwise, at a large league event the people that are in the front bunch will all be the top cyclists.

exactly. They have been doing it screwed up for the past two years. They need a clap, not more time.....

So what are we going to do? Niklas, you are pretty good with the whole statistical thing. Do you think you could work out a simpler plan to start with? Lets get some ideas going here. As cyclists (and not just pen pushes in the ppa office) and on a forum like this where we have everyone from pros to fun riders can give there input on how they would like things to work. That will be the best way to do this. If we dont come up with a better way for it to work things will never get any better.

We are soon going to face a big problem. If a new strong rider starts out (elite quality) he will move up through the rankings fairly quickly. But once he hits F group or so he is going to get stuck there. He wont be able to join league (as you need to have a D seeding) With them adjusting the winners time, I cant work out their stupid new formula, I often used to see the winners of a race ending up with a B seeding for the ride. Where does that leave everybody else then? The effect will ripple down and it will mean that the poor elite rider will be stuck in F forever. Yes, they can do a "special" re-seeding for him. But that just shows how bad the seeding system really is. We need a flat seeding system that does not adjust winning times. Needs to work more like the super seeding system. One thing I really really dont agree with is adjusting races where the pros who win the argus are winning those races. No one is EVER going to do it faster than them so why the heck adjust their time? Especially for the national level races where we have the countries best riders racing. Just take a look at some of results how they have been adjusted. Actual time | Race | New adjusted time 2:44:55 99er 02:37:10 2:38:53 medalion 02:32:14 2:51:52 simonsberg 02:48:04 2:23:58 burger 02:22:58 Look are the 99er time. Disgusting. Almost a 8 minute difference. We had the countries best riders doing it as well. (Evans and George were there), very difficult and over 1100 riders. The person who won it may have even a C seeding for the race, where he should actually have a 0 for it. What can we do about this? Surely us as paying members should be happy with the way that the seeding works? I dont know, but I think we need some brain storming around a new model that will work for everyone. PPA has its public meetings once or twice a year. With them being a NPO alot of its decisions come from a board of ppa members. Ideas?

There is no rush for them to update the seedings now as it is now MTB season, so seedings dont really matter. At least it will be done by june/july when we have to renew otherwise they cant issue us new numbers. But even that is another issue. Didnt they take like two months last time to give out the new numbers? Last year I renewed my membership like on the day it expired. It then took them another two months to send the number. I think I will hold onto my pennies this time.

Flip, I dont want to know how many rattles may come from doing this.

There is no other alternative..... Monopoly man. They have sent us all to jail and they have kept their R200 in membership fees.......

Yep, Thats the same for me as well. If a person has been on the hub for a while and has quite alot of posts. You can generally see quite quickly if you are going to get taken for a ride or not.

Ok, im sorry, That was cruel. But that is kind of how I feel every first wednesday of the month when I go to their site and see zip.