Phatman

First female over the line. No live feed, no fanfare on the Munga Facebook site, nothing. And the hub so busy arguing over whether the guys did the right thing that nobody noticed.

That was never what I said. Cyclist breaking a road rule can be argued to be a mitigating factor in determining liability, resulting in reduced or suspended sentence etc. Nobody said anything about suing an injured person for denting a car. Where did you get that from? And no I won't "just stop" for you, open forum, if you don't like what I have to say, I believe there's a "block" or ignore feature, use it.

http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAGPPHC/2015/597.html https://www.arrivealive.mobi/answering-the-question-who-is-to-blame-for-the-crash Better?

Excerpt from link copied and pasted below. If a driver does knock a pedestrian or cyclist, the normal duties of a driver in event of accident as provided by Section 61 of the Act apply: The driver must immediately stop the vehicle and report the accident. The driver must check if anyone has sustained an injury, as well as the seriousness of the injury, and render assistance to the injured person if he/she is capable of doing so. The driver must provide his/her details to anyone having reasonable grounds for requesting his/her details. If the driver has not already reported the accident to a police or traffic officer at the scene of the accident, he/she must report the accident as soon as reasonably practicable, unless he/ she is incapable of doing so due to injuries sustained in the accident. Where a person is killed or injured it must be reported within 24-hours after the occurrence of the accident or in any other case on the first working day after the occurrence of such accident The driver must not, except on the instructions of a medical practitioner, take any intoxicating liquor or drug having a narcotic effect. A vehicle involved in an accident where another person has been killed or injured shall not be removed from the position in which it came to rest until the removal has been authorised by a traffic officer. The only time a vehicle may be moved without authority is when the accident causes complete obstruction of the roadway of a public road, only then can it be moved sufficiently to allow the passage of traffic. And, this is only after its position has been clearly marked on the surface of the roadway by the person moving it. Except for the purpose of sufficiently allowing the passage of traffic, no other person may remove a vehicle which has been involved in an accident without the permission of the lawful owner, driver or operator In any prosecution for a contravention of any provision of Section 61 it shall be presumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the accused was aware of the fact the accident occurred, and that he or she did not report the accident or furnish information as required. In the event that a motorist knocks down a pedestrian or a cyclist, and the State decides to pursue a criminal case against him/her, the State will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the driver is in fact guilty in terms of criminal law. This, off course, entirely depends on evidence which is gathered during the investigation which will, for example, look into the speed, and manner, in which the car was driven. Motorists may also face harsh consequences if the State proves they are guilty of reckless, or negligent driving, or inconsiderate driving. It goes without saying, but the consequences of driving while drunk, or under the influence of drugs, also carries harsh penalties, especially if someone has been hurt, or worse, killed. These consequences may include imprisonment for culpable homicide where the death of a pedestrian or cyclist is the result of serious negligence or recklessness. How does this prove your point? I don't have a link to the requested legislation, sorry. One of my clients is however an attorney specialising in medical malpractice suits and RAF claims, who has educated me on various cases where RAF pays out much smaller amounts and covers much less of medical expenses incurred (as low as 30%) when blame has been apportioned to a cyclist/pedestrian due to violation of a road rule. And riding single file is one of the rules of the road pertaining to cyclists.

Riding 3 abreast (original post) is not within the law. And no I don't drive an Audi or BMW, I drive a little Palio mostly. I wouldn't be taken seriously if I had to hoot at anyone whilst driving the Palio.

Blame is apportioned in any accident. I'm not saying it's ok to run over any road user (cyclist, pedestrian etc). But it is arrogance to think that we can do whatever we like with no regard for other road users and drivers must just deal with it.

Calm down, I don't make the road rules. It's not "ok" to knock over anyone, but blame IS apportioned, for example if said jaywalker is intoxicated. Cyclists are obligated to follow road rules just like drivers in order to make the roads safer for all users.

The law doesn't see it the same way. Cyclists riding single file get knocked - 100% blame apportioned to driver. However, cyclists riding 2/3 abreast will not have the same level of protection. Perhaps blame will be apportioned 50/50, because of said cyclists breaking a rule of the road. This is not victim blaming, these are facts which will impact possible driver liability, potential RAF claims etc.

If you want to debate, address a post on its merits rather than resorting to exaggeration and conjecture. You know by now that the OP's posts tend to be balanced and well thought out, so don't put words in his mouth.

Don't be lazy, read the thread before commenting. If you see no fault on cyclists' part in OP's post,then you're part of the problem. Your mentality seems to be "Whether we're following rules or not doesn't matter, all that matters is that everyone else follows the rules"

In what fantasy do you live that you think it's acceptable to run stop signs and traffic lights, ride multiple abreast etc?

Totally. There's nothing technical, just jeep tracks. You might go through one small area of deep loose sand though,just a few hundred metres.

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Who said what about it being a male/female thing? That's all you. If it was a male the guys on here would have been a lot less polite.

I think the bigger issue and reason for the responses she's received, is the direct jump onto social media in order to bad-mouth the company and the obviously emotional rant. A simple email to the store manager or Spaz SA would very likely have had a more favourable result than a Hub rant. Referring to the store as "bloated and a cause of indigestion" is just being childish and snarky.

Hi, Could you please give us a spec sheet which is a bit more detailed? Trail 5 fork (air or spring) , number of gears and any other info you may have at hand. Thanks

No point in taking this further. Doc Shaper suggests 2 weeks, cut and dried, shut the thread down and let's all go have a beer.

Eat Clen, Tren hard, Test the limits Anavar give up.

Your cat says it tastes like ass.

Um, no, you see, ah... This is a er, emergency meeting to discuss the financial challenges that we are experiencing. We, ahh, cannot discuss these items which are, eh, not on the agenda. These issues need to be discussed at err, a separate meeting for that purpose. We assure you our eh, valued member, that we are dealing with this um, internally. Right now we must uh, focus on our athletes' safety and focus on getting this insurance reinstated, as the safety and well-being of our athletes is CSA's primary main number one priority. We assure you that we remain committed to cycl... etc.

Pics or it didn't happen!

Thing is, this is SA Champs, and cycling is what CSA do. Paarl 6 was a privately organised event (to the best of my knowledge) and that ran beautifully, so it is possible.

This is SA Champs, not some minnow event. If they're using volunteers then CSA seriously needs to get their act together. There was a crash during this morning's team pursuit (Chrispin Fourie and Robin Harris fell hard) and the other team kept lapping and trying to squeeze between riders and medics as nobody could tell them what to do. The last straw for us was the MC saying "And it's umm... I'm not sure because I don't have my glasses on..."

Total lack of organisation, last minute rearrangements of schedule, no control of the track when crashes happen, and would someone please organise the guy on the mike a pair of glasses as he's clueless. They should have watched Paarl 6 to learn how to organise a well run track event.

Yes true, I should have said "timed sections".