Challenge to PPA & WC Hubbers

[Windbreaker]

Ok,

 

Again, I reiterate that I am not detracting from the work that the PPA does do but I believe that they should be doing more w.r.t. the white line thing.

 

Dave B claims that we cyclists should be doing more, I say that they (all formal cycling organisations) should be doing more.

 

So here is the challenge.

 

PPA you employ (yes, pay moolah - we've got enough) and train at least 10 motorcycle based marshals equipped with (passengers &) cameras and the authority to pull riders from the race and the hubbers will come up with at least 20 cycle based volunteer marshals.

 

The motorcycle marshals are not to be committed to the league groups only but they should be roaming. Efforts should also be made to identify "problem areas" (like the top of Hels Hoogte) and additional camera equipped marshals should be stationed there.

 

The names and photographs of all offending riders should be published on the Hub. It (almost) goes without saying that the the PPA must be clear  on the rules & consequences and completely open & unbiased w.r.t. the name & shame campaign.

 

To start with the whole lawyer issue can be avoided as this would be a non-punitive effort in terms of financial penalties & suspension. As it gains support persistent "offenders" can be addressed individually with financial & suspension penalties.

 

Hubbers, start thinking about whether you are REALLY willing to do something about this too. Put your "mouth where your mouth is". My name is down as soon as I see a commitment from the PPA.

 

[Brakkies Sport Fotos]

So, Willehond, what you suggest is they identify a motorcycle club, (maybe some hubbers do belong to a club) and get a agreement that the club get in partnership with the PPA, to provide 10 members (or even 5) per race and the PPA will pay the club a certain amount per "head"

 

 

 

Like a R500 per motorcycle?

 

 

 

Good point.

 

 

 

This means that the PPA increase the entry fee with a R5 or R10 and commit to better and safer cycling

 

conditions.

 

 

 

I'm with you on this one.

[Windbreaker]

Not necessarily a m/c club but that is an option. Whatever the arrangement the individuals must be responsible and be trained to a certain degree. It can't just be some oke arriving in place of his buddy because he is hungover. They must know what is expected of them - and they must be paid otherwise it will not work.

[AuctionLamb]

by doing this your are actually causing more confusion....you guys making this thing way to complicated. by having all those motorcyclist on the rode is worse than having gutter on the wrongside of the road!

[Windbreaker]

There is plenty of space for the motorcyclists to sit behind a group. They can also help with motorists - to prevent motorists from trying topass when it is not safe.

 

There is absolutely no valid reason not to do it.

 

[American Flyers]

I agree with you

 

They must disqualify the riders who ride over white solid line and fine him +-R250. He can't continue until he pays the fine. 

[hagar]

I like the idea i am sure some Motor bike clubs would like to earn say 5k with say 500 riders all paying r10 towards making the ride safer for all. R10 is just more than a litre of petrol and not even enough for a beer !!!

[slowpoke]

AL, CGC have been using us bikers to marshal interclubs this year, and i have marshalled at other events as well and trust me it does not cause more confusion... we sit to the middle of the road and keep the cyclists to the left of the line AND have a far greater effect keeping the cars on their side of the road cos they see our lights well in advance and they are more scared of hitting us mean ugly bikers than of turning some selfish cyclist into a hood ornament.

[Willehond]

So' date=' Willehond, what you suggest.....
I'm with you on this one.[/quote']

 

Uhmmmm, I think you meant Windbreaker popeye, but don't mind, I actually agree with him!

 

We had a motorcycle marshal with the SV group on the Worcester ride this Spring and I thought it worked brilliantly!  Cars struggle to police the group and can't go through easily.  This marshal waved cars through that wanted to pass the group from behind as well as warning oncoming vehicles.  He also rode up to riders who CONSTANTLY sat on the right side of the white line (sensibly in other words) and it really worked well.  My suggestion is that you clone that guy or at least employ him permanently to marshal the SV group cause he was brilliant.

Auctionlamb, maybe he will be there to welcome you to SV in January.  Then you can ride away from us so we can test the white line guttering rule

[Guest Hellrider]

Great idea. A motorcycle-marshal has more presence and authority than a cycling marshal.

[shaunh]

Ok, whilst we on the subject on PPA paying for things, how about paying for a few signs in the WC?

[fandacious]

Ok' date=' whilst we on the subject on PPA paying for things, how about paying for a few signs in the WC?[/quote']

 

 

 

seeing as they're so worried about cyclists safety and are VERY quick to want to DQ burger cyclists, why not get the to put up cycling signs and raise awareness amongst motorists, instead of punishing the very people who pay their 30k a month salaries....

[Pantani]

Hmmm... interesting perspective... I believe we are about to witness the dynamics of situational ethics...

[hagar]

I tried to get something done here around our neck of the woods but it seems that if there are enough cyclists only then the will erect signs .

 

maybe us Capies should inundated them with requests for signs then they might react.

 

flippen lame excuse they gave me .

 

i say let us UNITE BROTHERS & SISTERS if the Taxies can protest why cant we

 

read my attempt at some sinage that I was prepared to get sponsers for

 

 

Original Message-----
From: Lars Starke [mailto:Lstarke@pgwc.gov.za]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:24 AM
To: Trevor Geldenhuys
Subject: Re: FW: The Sign-Up Initiative

Good morning Mr Geldenhuys,

I referred your e-mail to our traffic engineer for comment.  His response is as follows:-

"Hello Lars

Thanks for the info. I've had requests before to erect Cyclist Warning signs (W309) every 2 km along roads where cyclists like to practice. It will be detrimental to the integrity of the signage system to allow this as proposed. W309 signs should only be considered where cyclist volumes are so significant that motorists will see the reason for the sign and hopefully act appropriately. This may be warranted at isolated locations where lots of cyclists commute to school or work, but recreational cyclists can cycle on any road they perceive to be safe enough. It is not practical to provide signage on all these roads and with signs every 2 km motorists will soon ignore the signs - especially if they do not see cyclists for the larger part of the day. Then it will just be another fruitless exercise that detract attention from other important signs.

The general viewpoint is that motorists must expect cyclists and pedestrians on all our road shoulders and that they should not drive on the shoulder when it is unsafe for themselves and other road users  to do so. We will never be able to provide separate paths for pedestrians and cyclists along all our rural roads. Recreational cyclists prefer the better geometrics of the roadway to cycle on and there will always be conflict between cyclists and motorists because of this. Signs will not help to improve cyclist safety where they are not warranted.

Recreational cyclist can choose the route they wish to practice on and should do so taking their own safety into account by avoiding high speed roads, roads without shoulders, cycle when traffic volumes are low, when sight conditions are good and wear reflective clothing and lights during dusk.

Only road authorities can display road traffic signs and must take responsibility for that in terms of the National Road Traffic Act (No. 93 of 1996). Local road authorities have no jurisdiction to display road traffic signs on proclaimed public roads outside the urban areas, but they may do law enforcement there.

Requests for increased law enforcement can be directed to the traffic authorities to keep speeding and reckless driving under control at specific times that will benefit cyclist safety.

Regards
Schalk"

I am in agreement with his sentiments. What is needed in my opinion is that drivers should be educated to be made aware of the vulnerability of cyclists and pedestrians. This should happen in schools and when people apply for a driver's licence.

Kind regards,



Lars Starke

Lars Starke BSc.BEng. (Civil), Pr.Eng
District Roads Engineer
Private Bag X2
Ceres
6835

e-mail:    lstarke@pgwc.gov.za
Phone:   (023) 312-1160
Fax:        (023) 312-2633
Cell:        (082) 809-6170


>>> "Trevor Geldenhuys" <trevorg@dsp.co.za> 26/11/07 09:33 >>>
Good morning Mr Starke

this is what we want to try and avoid.

kind Regards

Cape Argus <http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php>
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South Africa


Arrest in hit-and-run cycle killing

Man held after number plate is left in road


November 25, 2007 Edition 1

CLAYTON BARNES

A 23-year-old man was arrested in Fish Hoek late yesterday on a charge
of culpable homicide and reckless and negligent driving after a bakkie
smashed into two cyclists near Kommetjie, killing one.

The man is due to appear in the Simon's Town Magistrate's court
tomorrow. His arrest came as a result of police inquiries into a
numberplate left lying in the road.

Scottish-born cyclist Brian Crabb, 35, was killed and his companion,
veteran Cape Town surfer Glenn Bee, 57, was seriously injured.

Late yesterday, after hours of surgery, Bee was in a coma and his
condition was described as critical.

A speeding white Isuzu bakkie hit Crabb and Bee while they were out
training for next year's Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay Cycle Tour. The incident
occurred just after 6am.

Witnesses said after the bakkie ploughed into the cyclists near Ocean
View, the driver stopped a few metres on and - ignoring the two figures
lying on the road - dragged a buckled bicycle from under his vehicle
then drove off. His numberplate was left lying in the road.

Speaking to Weekend Argus at the Vincent Pallotti Hospital in Pinelands
yesterday, where Bee was undergoing emergency surgery, his wife
Catherine said she was still in shock.

"I'm a compassionate person and I would have understood had it been an
accident, but don't hit cyclists and just drive away. That's cowardly,"
said Bee.

Glenn Bee is one of South Africa's first tow-surfers, a sport in which
jetskis tow the surfer into a big breaking wave. He is also an executive
of Bee Painters and Waterproofers in Cape Town.

Crabb, a carpenter, had been living with the Bees in Kommetjie for 13
years. He wasn't a cyclist or a surfer, but decided to join Bee for the
Cycle Tour next March.

Catherine Bee said Crabb's family had been informed. "We'll remain in
contact until they decide what the next step is."

Jody Bee, 23, the Bees' older child, was shattered at the news of the
accident.

"All we can do now is hope for the best, it could go any way," she said.


"My dad is such a fun guy and so safety conscious and now this happens.
This is also not his first cycling accident. About six years ago he fell
down the mountain with his bike and broke his collarbone.

"He's been through so much and has diabetes."

Bee's son, Dean, 21, is set to arrive from Denmark today "to be with the
family".

Robert Bateman, a Noordhoek cyclist, witnessed the crash and called
paramedics.

He had been cycling on the opposite side of the road and heard a big
bang before seeing one of the bicycles fly through the air.

"It was a horrifying sight," said Bateman.

"The driver stopped about 150m from where the cyclists were hit, pulled
one of the bikes from under his vehicle and sped off.

"The cyclist I was tending to had serious head injuries, while the other
one had already died. I think he died on impact.

"I'm very angry and I hope this incident will once again highlight the
plight of cyclists in the city. We are totally ignored on the roads.
More respect is desperately needed."

Bateman said there was "no doubt" the motorist was travelling well over
Kommetjie Road's 60km/h speed limit.

Surfing journalist Steve Pike, author of the new book Surfing South
Africa, in which Bee features, said the incident was "terrible news".

"This is shocking," said Pike. "The irony of this is that Glenn faces
some unbelievably life-threatening conditions in the surf, and now he's
injured like this. My condolences to his family. Our prayers are with
them."

David Bellairs of the Cape Town Cycle Tour Trust and organiser of the
Cycle Tour lashed out at irresponsible motorists, saying they needed to
be more tolerant on the roads.

He said an increasing number of cyclists had begun preparing for the
Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay Cycle Tour on routes across the city.

"It's important for motorists to drive responsibly," he said.




In print
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________________________________

From: Trevor Geldenhuys
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 15:36 PM
To: 'Lstarke@pgwc.gov.za'
Subject: The Sign-Up Initiative


Dear Mr Starke

I currently reside in Saldanha on the West Coast and am a keen cyclist
who uses the roads around the Langebaan / Saldanha Vredenburg area. I
would like to create an awareness with the motorists here on the
westcoast. I would like to know how I can go about obtaining permission
to erect signs on the surronding roads.

I will arrange for the finance through sponsors so there would not be
any cost involved for the municipality.

I attach a document for your persual of an initative that was started in
Gauteng.

Kind regards

Trevor Geldenhuys

Tel : 022 7097090
fax: 022 7097390
email: trevorg@dsp.co.za

[hagar]

any suggestions what should my line of attack be now ????

 

should it be my Louisville slugger ?????

hagar2007-12-04 10:27:24

[hagar]

please note mr Lars Stark's email address wouldit be benificial to pop him a few emails just keep him busy.