Till on Supercycling last night...

[Colin H]

Bitching and moaning it seems is a requirement of the hub.

Looking at the real cause will help in resolving the problems. It is very easy to shout, moan and groan, but be part of the solution and not the noise on the outside.

[Big H*]

Bitching and moaning it seems is a requirement of the hub.

Looking at the real cause will help in resolving the problems. It is very easy to shout, moan and groan, but be part of the solution and not the noise on the outside.

 

:clap: At last some sense, our strong guidance and participation will keep the hands out of the till!

[Wyatt Earp]

Dangle, I know it is cool to trash stuff but get your facts straight.

The stage was stopped as a result of an unsafe condition due to cars on the road. The planning was ok, the sandton road users stuffed it up.

Put the blame at the correct doorstep!

No, you need to get your facts straight, not base things on what you saw on the TV.

If you plan well before hand and get all the correct measures in place from the word go, the things WILL run smooth.

The cold hard fact is that they half heartedly slapped a tour together thinking it's OK to do so with only a few months of planning.

I have facts and wouldn't come on here making statements like that unless I knew what was going on.

Now if you feel you need to play the good advocate for CSA, you are fighting a losing battle.

 

Here is CSA's doorstep _________ I am putting the blame here BLAME.

[udxcob]

Didnt they already accept responsibility for that mess?

[Wyatt Earp]

Didnt they already accept responsibility for that mess?

Yip.

[Delgado]

Let me fix it for you.

TOSA was stopped on stage 2 because of **** poor planning and organization before hand.

Let me fix it a touch further...............and a healthy dose of an ill disciplined, liberated, self righteous "society"

[sias]

Just read the "team composition" from the youth development...

If I had 6 male riders:

Would it be OK if they were 4 white laaities with an Afrikaner culture and 2 white laaities with an English culture?

Or do I read this whole thing wrong?

Also, do you get white PDI riders?

Edited November 4, 2011 by sias

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Just read the "team composition" from the youth development...

If I had 6 male riders:

Would it be OK if they were 4 white laaities with an Afrikaner culture and 2 white laaities with an English culture?

Or do I read this whole thing wrong?

Also, do you get white PDI riders?

 

- Yeah, Yeah, Sias.

 

Actually my impression is basing a team on anything but ability is already heading down the wrong path, but then again, here in good old SA we are very adept at that.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Dangle, I know it is cool to trash stuff but get your facts straight.

The stage was stopped as a result of an unsafe condition due to cars on the road. The planning was ok, the sandton road users stuffed it up.

Put the blame at the correct doorstep!

 

Isn't that kind of laying blame as well and not been part of the solution.?

 

I live in the area, pretty close to Dangle actually and I was not even aware there was a race on the go, fair enough I don't watch the local show on TV or follow local racing but if you want to disrupt the busiest roads in JHB you had best start warning people well ahead of time, I went to play golf at Dainfern that morning and nobody ,I mean nobody was aware of the event.

 

To say the people of Sandton stuffed it up is naive and disingenuous, motorists in the area were not aware of the event and could not plan appropriately, secondly its the busiest road in JHB with thousands of cars passing every minute on their way somewhere, do they also not have rights.?

 

My impression is the people of JHB are very accommodating of disruptions to their day, just look at the 94.7, advise them timeously, get them on board, make them feel part of the event and you will have no issues. That was not done and then you blame the motorist for "stuffing it up".

 

Lay the blame at the right door.

Edited November 4, 2011 by GrumpyOldGuy

[Danger Dassie]

Isn't that kind of laying blame as well and not been part of the solution.?

 

I live in the area, pretty close to Dangle actually and I was not even aware there was a race on the go, fair enough I don't watch the local show on TV or follow local racing but if you want to disrupt the busiest roads in JHB you had best start warning people well ahead of time, I went to play golf at Dainfern that morning and nobody ,I mean nobody was aware of the event.

 

To say the people of Sandton stuffed it up is naive and disingenuous, motorists in the area were not aware of the event and could not plan appropriately, secondly its the busiest road in JHB with thousands of cars passing every minute on their way somewhere, do they also not have rights.?

 

My impression is the people of JHB are very accommodating of disruptions to their day, just look at the 94.7, advise them timeously, get them on board, make them feel part of the event and you will have no issues. That was not done and then you blame the motorist for "stuffing it up".

 

Lay the blame at the right door.

 

I dunno, I think it was a combination of poor planning and Joburg attitude.

Yes there was frustration and many people did not know what was going on because of poor communication.

Still, it doesn't justify the following actions by motorists on the day

 

- Playing chicken with a marshall bike

- Spitting at the marshall bike

- Swearing at the group

- Intimidating a marshall by driving straight at him in the intersection

- Mounting the sidewalk and knocking barriers

 

Despite any kind of bad planning, organisation and communication before and during the event. It doesn't justify the above.

['Dale]

I dunno, I think it was a combination of poor planning and Joburg attitude.

Yes there was frustration and many people did not know what was going on because of poor communication.

Still, it doesn't justify the following actions by motorists on the day

 

- Playing chicken with a marshall bike

- Spitting at the marshall bike

- Swearing at the group

- Intimidating a marshall by driving straight at him in the intersection

- Mounting the sidewalk and knocking barriers

 

Despite any kind of bad planning, organisation and communication before and during the event. It doesn't justify the above.

Yeah, that was one weird phenomenon of disrupting the Tour...

In Sandton nogal.

[Eldron]

Me - I'm 50/50 on this one.

 

Let's face it - arranging a bike race on those roads was never going to be a winner. It took years before Jhb embraced the 94.7 and even now I see taxis, vagrants and random cars on the course. This with hectic traffic control, national media exposure, months of warnings and many years of conditioning.

 

CSA did the wrong thing for the right reason. Bringing racing to the general public was a great idea - doing it on short notice in a densely populated area where affluence means few people on foot and loads of people in cars was a really crap idea.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I dunno, I think it was a combination of poor planning and Joburg attitude.

Yes there was frustration and many people did not know what was going on because of poor communication.

Still, it doesn't justify the following actions by motorists on the day

 

- Playing chicken with a marshall bike

- Spitting at the marshall bike

- Swearing at the group

- Intimidating a marshall by driving straight at him in the intersection

- Mounting the sidewalk and knocking barriers

 

Despite any kind of bad planning, organisation and communication before and during the event. It doesn't justify the above.

 

I hear you, aggression is never to be condoned.

 

However, this is not Pofadder with one light and 5 cars at peak hours, this is Sandton, the busiest hub in the the busiest metropolis in the country.

 

People here are busy, if you think they are going to sit at home and wait for a bicycle race to pass by and THEN go about their business, well, that's not gonna happen.

 

Delaying people by 30 minutes when they are not expecting it and are unaware of the issue means they are late to work, late for their meeting, late to collect Johnny at the party, late to open the office, late to tee off for golf, late to get to the hospital, late to close the office, late to that event they they paid for, late to the shops, late to get home.......people here have busy, busy lives, they have places to go, people to see and things to do, the roads are not conductive to easy travel and further delays are irritating, HOWEVER, and I mean this, they WILL get on board and support if you take the time to show them alternatives to the route, make sure they are well aware ahead of time and show them the advantages of the event.

 

They WILL get on board.

 

I disagree with Eldron, its got nothing to do with wealth and the arrogance you perceive that go's with it, on the contrary, JHB folk I find are very, very, accommodating and friendly but don't spring surprises on them they don't understand that causes further delays in an already hot busy and congested business area.

[Eldron]

I disagree with Eldron, its got nothing to do with wealth and the arrogance you perceive that go's with it, on the contrary, JHB folk I find are very, very, accommodating and friendly but don't spring surprises on them they don't understand that causes further delays in an already hot busy and congested business area.

 

Oi. No words in my mouth please

 

By affluent I meant everyone will be in cars rather than on foot - watching a bike race from a car is impossible.

 

In Europe you get loads of passers by going to the train/bus/shopping etc. but in SA and especially the north everyone is in a car.

 

I fully understand the wanting to spit on police officers and mount pavements - some months ago I was on my way to a mtb race and got stopped by a marshall looking after a race (running). I must have been near the start cos the runners were still quite bunched. I sat at the robot for 25 minutes - the guy wouldn't even let me through a gap where the runners may have had to slow one or two strides. By minute 10 I was steamed - by minute 20 I was beathing fire out my ears and by minute 25 I was ready to commit murder. I'm a pretty chilled kinda guy normally so I can only guess how stressed out people would have dealt with the situation.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Oi. No words in my mouth please

 

By affluent I meant everyone will be in cars rather than on foot - watching a bike race from a car is impossible.

 

In Europe you get loads of passers by going to the train/bus/shopping etc. but in SA and especially the north everyone is in a car.

 

I fully understand the wanting to spit on police officers and mount pavements - some months ago I was on my way to a mtb race and got stopped by a marshall looking after a race (running). I must have been near the start cos the runners were still quite bunched. I sat at the robot for 25 minutes - the guy wouldn't even let me through a gap where the runners may have had to slow one or two strides. By minute 10 I was steamed - by minute 20 I was beathing fire out my ears and by minute 25 I was ready to commit murder. I'm a pretty chilled kinda guy normally so I can only guess how stressed out people would have dealt with the situation.

 

- Sorry man, I misunderstood you.

 

For sure, I am with you on the delay, people don't have time for it today, and maybe the Marshall said something the motorist found provocative, even if he didn't mean it in a nasty sense an infuriated motorist stuck in a hot grid locked traffic jam which he did not anticipate can easily misunderstand the comment.

['Dale]

Me - I'm 50/50 on this one.

 

Let's face it - arranging a bike race on those roads was never going to be a winner. It took years before Jhb embraced the 94.7 and even now I see taxis, vagrants and random cars on the course. This with hectic traffic control, national media exposure, months of warnings and many years of conditioning.

 

CSA did the wrong thing for the right reason. Bringing racing to the general public was a great idea - doing it on short notice in a densely populated area where affluence means few people on foot and loads of people in cars was a really crap idea.

Yeah...

Good intention. Not so great impact.