(Deon) Posted December 1, 2011 Share Sabbath over the weekend is just plain bad planning. That's like having the day off while you're on leave. We need a religion that gives us a Friday or Monday off.. Interesting. Man edited religion it to suit his political agenda, it should be up for review sometime soon again. Make a note to change the sabbath to mid week Wednesday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Yep well, whatever floats your boat .. I just get more satisfaction from rational thought than from irrational belief. I am always interested in these impressions Guy, I see you as an intelligent man, you make sense when you post something, you don't make silly arguments, so it interests me how you can not see rational thought in the teachings of the bible. Most of the bible is provable, and has been proven, right from the birth of Abraham to Moses to Solomon to the new testament and the birth and death of Jesus. The parts which are undated and considered by some as parable (some accept it as fact and that's fine) are only "Creation and the Ark", its a tiny part of the works of the bible, yet its what most people with an axe to grind latch onto and regurgitate continuously, they cannot argue the works of Moses, we have his tablets or whats left of them, they cannot argue Jesus performed miracles, millions witnessed them, they cannot argue the crucifixion or burial and resurrection , we have witness, they cannot argue letters sent by the apostles, we have originals (or again whats left of them) so they argue the Ark....... and extrapolate that if that's parable the rest is too, but its not and its proven as fact so how can there be doubt.? Please understand I am just interested, I am not making any judgement on your opinions, I am just interested to hear your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted December 1, 2011 Share Interesting. Man edited religion it to suit his political agenda, it should be up for review sometime soon again. Make a note to change the sabbath to mid week Wednesday... It's on the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbelBuys Posted December 1, 2011 Share Yep well, whatever floats your boat .. I just get more satisfaction from rational thought than from irrational belief. What is rational belief? No belief? Evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted December 1, 2011 Share Please understand I am just interested, I am not making any judgement on your opinions, I am just interested to hear your view. I'll take the bait... Have a look HERE . Purpose of the link is not to convince anyone of anything. I've just realized long time ago that things aren't as clear cut as we originally thought, and that the only thing that keeps any of us on any road is faith. Or believe rather. When I was in Singapore I visited temples, mosques, shrines, churches and all sorts of religious places. Spend quite a lot of time chatting to all sorts of people. Couple of things struck me. 1. It is predominantly christian faiths that want to argue their believe and convince you otherwise. At all the temples, mosques and shrines I visited I could have a mature conversation. Most of them loved telling me about their God(s) and in no way tried to convince me that I'm in the wrong. In fact, bar Muslims, they embrace other faiths.2. At first the stories they told me of why they worship or bring offerings to a certain God was stupid or unrealistic. But then I thought about a guy being swallowed by a whale, two animals walking from all over the world in pairs to climb on a massive boat to be saved from a flood. Made me realize our "stories" are not so easy to tell to other people when trying to convince them. Krishna's, Buddhist, Hindu's will listen but that doesn't convince them of anything as their Gods have done the same and in most cases even more. Same happened in India. When visiting a church or two I HAD to tell them I was a christian. Otherwise they would not leave me alone and try to convince me of our faith. Religious bashers we are. But go into a shrine or temple and the question hardly ever comes up. Why the heck is that people? Are we / you threatened. Why bash people with facts and versus. I don't recall reading Jesus ever doing it, why the need now? So back to my point, believe what you believe. But do it well. Ask questions cause somewhere down the line you'll ask the right ones and stumble across the right answers. But realize there are people who see and believe different to us, to you. How will you convince them? By living a life of example. Is the bible perfect and without flaw? Nope. Does it matter to me? Nope. And to my fellow Christians...time to take the carrot out of your ass. Most of the time it's us who drive people away from our beloved faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Interesting. Man edited religion it to suit his political agenda, it should be up for review sometime soon again. Make a note to change the sabbath to mid week Wednesday... In some quarters, indeed. Many people forget the Bible did not just arrive one morning finished and edited for faults. It was an ongoing work over many years by many authors with many translations, things changed during the writing and they edited and made changes accordingly, as we do today, no manuscript is ever going to be "written in stone" hang my coffee machine manual has three editions as they changed it over production time, the bible and its teachings are no different, but that do's not change the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbelBuys Posted December 1, 2011 Share I am always interested in these impressions Guy, I see you as an intelligent man, you make sense when you post something, you don't make silly arguments, so it interests me how you can not see rational thought in the teachings of the bible. Most of the bible is provable, and has been proven, right from the birth of Abraham to Moses to Solomon to the new testament and the birth and death of Jesus. The parts which are undated and considered by some as parable (some accept it as fact and that's fine) are only "Creation and the Ark", its a tiny part of the works of the bible, yet its what most people with an axe to grind latch onto and regurgitate continuously, they cannot argue the works of Moses, we have his tablets or whats left of them, they cannot argue Jesus performed miracles, millions witnessed them, they cannot argue the crucifixion or burial and resurrection , we have witness, they cannot argue letters sent by the apostles, we have originals (or again whats left of them) so they argue the Ark....... and extrapolate that if that's parable the rest is too, but its not and its proven as fact so how can there be doubt.? Please understand I am just interested, I am not making any judgement on your opinions, I am just interested to hear your view. I wanted to say there's too much proof (but as I don't have any of the scrolls-lol- I left it out) About the witnesses. Have you noticed in the scripture that Pilate (rome) made sure the jews could not remove Jesus's body & 'fake' His resurrection. By that time the jews didn't even believe that He would rise from the dead. With todays' technology they could even tell if the writer was right or left handed, the angle at which he wrote etc. Hebrew was from right to left (remember all languages flow towards jerusalem-pretty useless info, but provocative) There's too many spot on prophecies in the Bible (Daniel / Revelation & even many other prophets)to make it off as just a good read or good guide line. It happens as predicted. Just read the psalms. It was written few hundered years before the crucifixion (or even before crucifixion was invented) & predicts it, of a certain Man... Interesting how Jerusalem becomes so important to the world. It's been written & so it'll happen. God says what He means & means what He says (said if you prefer). P.S.: If any of you that's interested in doing an in depth study of the Bible check out khouse.orgor send me a PM & we can arrange on how to get some mp3 or video to you. They have the Berean outlook as well as the issachar(ian) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted December 1, 2011 Share I'll take the bait... Have a look HERE . Purpose of the link is not to convince anyone of anything. I've just realized long time ago that things aren't as clear cut as we originally thought, and that the only thing that keeps any of us on any road is faith. Or believe rather. When I was in Singapore I visited temples, mosques, shrines, churches and all sorts of religious places. Spend quite a lot of time chatting to all sorts of people. Couple of things struck me. 1. It is predominantly christian faiths that want to argue their believe and convince you otherwise. At all the temples, mosques and shrines I visited I could have a mature conversation. Most of them loved telling me about their God(s) and in no way tried to convince me that I'm in the wrong. In fact, bar Muslims, they embrace other faiths.2. At first the stories they told me of why they worship or bring offerings to a certain God was stupid or unrealistic. But then I thought about a guy being swallowed by a whale, two animals walking from all over the world in pairs to climb on a massive boat to be saved from a flood. Made me realize our "stories" are not so easy to tell to other people when trying to convince them. Krishna's, Buddhist, Hindu's will listen but that doesn't convince them of anything as their Gods have done the same and in most cases even more. Same happened in India. When visiting a church or two I HAD to tell them I was a christian. Otherwise they would not leave me alone and try to convince me of our faith. Religious bashers we are. But go into a shrine or temple and the question hardly ever comes up. Why the heck is that people? Are we / you threatened. Why bash people with facts and versus. I don't recall reading Jesus ever doing it, why the need now? So back to my point, believe what you believe. But do it well. Ask questions cause somewhere down the line you'll ask the right ones and stumble across the right answers. But realize there are people who see and believe different to us, to you. How will you convince them? By living a life of example. Is the bible perfect and without flaw? Nope. Does it matter to me? Nope. And to my fellow Christians...time to take the carrot out of your ass. Most of the time it's us who drive people away from our beloved faith. No need to take any bait, I can Google stuff and post it up here on an ad hoc basis as well, what do's it mean - Nada.! Its easy to regurgitate other peoples views, give us Yours.! As for Christian's pushing their faith and not others, what rubbish, I guess there is free religious doctrines in China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Hmm I must have missed the memo where they said come build your Christian churches here and preach your word......yet I see lots of temples of other faiths in predominantly Christian countries and that's fine I support it, last time I flew BA they did not have a christian prayer for travel before take off, fly the airline of some Arabian countries and you will hear one, I don't mind, but is it not "pushing a faith" - I think so, when last did you see a Christian demonstration against another faith?, need I go on.... but yeah I guess its easy to comment on things without any background except a Google search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted December 1, 2011 Share Tell you what.. from a modern perspective.. of all the information that is available to us in disjointed, non-sensical, out of order, drips and drabs, Zietgeist is the best bash at logically understanding the world's abundant info, put into the best attempt I've seen, of order.. hire it when you can. It is a bucket list item! But brace yourself, it comes at you thick and fast. The series is not designed to present anything new, just a collection of what is currently available, in timeline order with cross-referencing of different beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big H* Posted December 1, 2011 Share "Thin ice" ....... Legend says that Santa used the term to discipline his reindeer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted December 1, 2011 Share Haha, sorry, did I say bashers! Yeah, I googled it same way we google everything. I have some literature about it but it's at home and I would need to scan it then post it. And my background is one of personal experience. I'm not talking about stuff on the news in a far away place. I'm talking about personally sitting down with someone to have a discussion. I was born and raised in the church. Still attend, but less. So I have plenty of background. And apart from the link it was 100% my opinion, experienced by me and re-told by me. Edited December 1, 2011 by The Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big H* Posted December 1, 2011 Share No need to take any bait, I can Google stuff and post it up here on an ad hoc basis as well, what do's it mean - Nada.! Its easy to regurgitate other peoples views, give us Yours.! As for Christian's pushing their faith and not others, what rubbish, I guess there is free religious doctrines in China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Hmm I must have missed the memo where they said come build your Christian churches here and preach your word......yet I see lots of temples of other faiths in predominantly Christian countries and that's fine I support it, last time I flew BA they did not have a christian prayer for travel before take off, fly the airline of some Arabian countries and you will hear one, I don't mind, but is it not "pushing a faith" - I think so, when last did you see a Christian demonstration against another faith?, need I go on.... but yeah I guess its easy to comment on things without any background except a Google search. Not true, Christians are persecuted to death in these counties that practices "peacefull" doctrines. You forgot to add North Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted December 1, 2011 Share I wanted to say there's too much proof (but as I don't have any of the scrolls-lol- I left it out)About the witnesses. Have you noticed in the scripture that Pilate (rome) made sure the jews could not remove Jesus's body & 'fake' His resurrection. By that time the jews didn't even believe that He would rise from the dead. With todays' technology they could even tell if the writer was right or left handed, the angle at which he wrote etc. Hebrew was from right to left (remember all languages flow towards jerusalem-pretty useless info, but provocative) There's too many spot on prophecies in the Bible (Daniel / Revelation & even many other prophets)to make it off as just a good read or good guide line. It happens as predicted. Just read the psalms. It was written few hundered years before the crucifixion (or even before crucifixion was invented) & predicts it, of a certain Man... Interesting how Jerusalem becomes so important to the world. It's been written & so it'll happen. God says what He means & means what He says (said if you prefer). Sure, of course their is proof, many just don't want to see it. It could be said the entire bible was based on a prophecy (the crucifixion of Jesus) and that everything lead up to that point, so yes I would agree with you. Anyway, I have made my point, I dont expect everyone or even anyone to agree, that's fine, but I have never and I will never ridicule another or tell them to change, as "The Crow" suggests I do, I make no excuses for my beliefs, and I have no issue with other doctrines, I cant control the world, I can only control my life and live it the way I prefer, others mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted December 1, 2011 Share Tell you what.. from a modern perspective.. of all the information that is available to us in disjointed, non-sensical, out of order, drips and drabs, Zietgeist is the best bash at logically understanding the world's abundant info, put into the best attempt I've seen, of order.. hire it when you can. It is a bucket list item! But brace yourself, it comes at you thick and fast. The series is not designed to present anything new, just a collection of what is currently available, in timeline order with cross-referencing of different beliefs. Zeitgeist is not for the average believer or guy. One needs a very open mind and the ability to at least listen and decide for yourself. Unfortunately most people dismiss it for what it is before giving it some thought. Edited December 1, 2011 by The Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drongo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Yep well, whatever floats your boat .. I just get more satisfaction from rational thought than from irrational belief. Dude, is your problem with religion, or belief? Just not too sure, reading your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted December 1, 2011 Share Sure, of course their is proof, many just don't want to see it. It could be said the entire bible was based on a prophecy (the crucifixion of Jesus) and that everything lead up to that point, so yes I would agree with you. Anyway, I have made my point, I dont expect everyone or even anyone to agree, that's fine, but I have never and I will never ridicule another or tell them to change, as "The Crow" suggests I do, I make no excuses for my beliefs, and I have no issue with other doctrines, I cant control the world, I can only control my life and live it the way I prefer, others mileage may vary. You really need to read my post again "Grumpy Old Guy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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