Steel 29'er

[Eldron]

Unless the frame is from stainless steel, it is dumb mateial for a mtb frame. It will rust, unless you ride only on dry days, in places where there is no water ot mud. It may or may not have some mystical "ride feel" (I've done more than 20000km on steel road and mtbs) and the most noticeble to me was more side to side flex on the bb and fork on the road. I give the benefit of the doubt that some people may like the feel of more flex. More vetical flex would mean more comfort, but I have my doubts if anybody would notice that over the flex of fat mtb tyres, and 100mm of suspension travel. Biggest difference would be a "jy dink jys cooler as ekke" thing.

 

+1. Steel is real....heavy and real.....useless as a frame material. You can't hydroform it - you can't make the OD larger to add stiffness and it rusts if you scratch through the paint. Those are all the reasons I own one - it's my little way of showing my middle finger to the world of logic.

 

I have a race bike with hydroformed frame, suspension with multiple settings, a 10 speed group set with more shifting aids than the white house and sure it's fun to ride and is designed with only race results in mind but sometimes you gotta break with convention and buck "the system". Enter the single speed steel bike - it's the vehicle of choice for journeys into the wide world of silliness.

[Hairy]

Unless the frame is from stainless steel, it is dumb mateial for a mtb frame. It will rust, unless you ride only on dry days, in places where there is no water ot mud. It may or may not have some mystical "ride feel" (I've done more than 20000km on steel road and mtbs) and the most noticeble to me was more side to side flex on the bb and fork on the road. I give the benefit of the doubt that some people may like the feel of more flex. More vetical flex would mean more comfort, but I have my doubts if anybody would notice that over the flex of fat mtb tyres, and 100mm of suspension travel. Biggest difference would be a "jy dink jys cooler as ekke" thing.

 

Everything you said makes no sense when you are riding a steel bike ... somehow just feels right.

 

I am sensitive to bike setup and you can feel the magic in the steel framed bikes

[Eldron]

Hairy - there is no magic. Steel is floppy which is why it feels great. Awesome for rigis bikes and fun bikes - terrible for efficincy and racing...

 

I have a Niner MCR and it is indeed a Magic Carpet Ride - the flex in the steel makes the ride smooth and fun. My hydroformed Niner Air not so much.

[Christie]

I won't argue with that, Eldron

 

There are manufacturers who make stainless steel frames, but I think they cost a bit more, in general.

[Christie]

PS

@ Eldron: An interesting question that I wonder about is : What happens to the energy used to flex a frame? I don't think it is lost to damping, because steel has the lowest structural damping I've measured, its around 1%, compared to alu for example, which has around 2% damping. That could mean that the BB will spring back in the opposite direction of the first pedal stroke, with most of the energy still intact. My line of reasoning would then go that only a little energy from the following pedal stroke would go into flexing the frame. It flexes, but does not drain a significant amount of the rider's energy.

I think if you can live with the "feel" of the frame, you can race it.

[Eldron]

You know what? I have no idea

 

My initial reaction is that any energy that goes into bending a frame is energy that isn't used for forward motion but I can't back it up with logic or fact. I'm a metallurgical engineer not a mechanical...

 

Any mechies out there that can offer up and explanation?

[Hairy]

I have learnt to "dance" for want of a better word on the pedals and try to transfer my force in a vertical direction and pulling up on the bars .... kind of in-line with the frame, instead of wrenching the bike side to side like I would on an alum frame. Somehow this works for me and there is a distinct improvement.

 

Magic. I think there is some.

 

Coming off an Alum HT and building the exact same parts over onto the steel frame and riding the same trail again. The ride is more buttery and just feels right.

 

The same could be said for when I had my old steel roadie frame ..... it just somehow takes the edge off when riding on rough roads.

[Hairy]

Forgot to add I am no engineer, but do Architecture and Interiors. Time has been un-scientifically proven that a nice looking / painted bike is faster and more fun ...

[Eldron]

Forgot to add I am no engineer, but do Architecture and Interiors. Time has been un-scientifically proven that a nice looking / painted bike is faster and more fun ...

 

Awesome - you've learned the single speed shuffle - the crUsher refers to it as "swimming". I call it "rolling the bars". Once you've nailed it climbing mountains in a stupidly over sized single gear gets easier. I don't think "swimming" is possible on an alu frame (and I've tried a lot). I'm guessing it's got to do with the flex and timing of the flex in steel.

 

Like I said in the weight weenie thread - if it makes you happy then it's the right bike!

 

Alas as a scientist the words "mystical" and "magical" rub me up the wrong way

[Hairy]

Alas as a scientist the words "mystical" and "magical" rub me up the wrong way

 

 

In CT we even name trails after this word, albeit with a artist license taken to the spelling ... AKA Majik Forest

[Iron]

Awesome - you've learned the single speed shuffle - the crUsher refers to it as "swimming". I call it "rolling the bars". Once you've nailed it climbing mountains in a stupidly over sized single gear gets easier. I don't think "swimming" is possible on an alu frame (and I've tried a lot). I'm guessing it's got to do with the flex and timing of the flex in steel.

 

Like I said in the weight weenie thread - if it makes you happy then it's the right bike!

 

Alas as a scientist the words "mystical" and "magical" rub me up the wrong way

 

But is science not magic ..................

[Flippa]

You could also consider the Kona Unit. Has sliding dropouts, so when you order, specify the geared dropouts. I'm loving mine.

 

Otherwise Jamis Dragon is also a hot bike.

[amasendeinja]

Mr. Bob Brown who has been building steel frames for 15 years or so, and seems pretty qualified to make these statements/observations, would not agree with the whole thing about steel being less stiff than other materials. See attached link to his article on Material Myths and draw your own conclusions - he actually allows you to do so... http://www.bobbrowncycles.com/eng.htm#section1

[Christie]

On paper, the specific stiffness (youngs modulus/density) of steel and aluminium is the same. It should mean that an alu frame of the same size and weight should have the same stiffness of a steel one. But a steel frame with the same stiffness would have a harder ride, because steel has less damping inherently.

 

Re. The stuff on the Bob Brown site: The measured values are more useful than the FEA pics, because the meshes on those models look pretty dodgy, and I'm hoping he at least used second order elements, else the results would be completely useless. A rough tetrahedral mesh on a tight curvature struggles to capture the geometry properly, as can seen in his FE pics.

Anyhow, his measurements show that the Bianchi aluminium frame is 35% lighter but has 25% more deflection than the his steel frame. I think that in fact gives the advantage to aluminium?

[BLACKvoodoo]

Some comments on here are really backwards. Steel is primitive, so unless you're going to have a wire rack on the back and a basket in front, glitter streamers hanging from the handle bars, back pedal brakes and it's pink.. Don't waste your time.

[BLACKvoodoo]

It's like saying " I've upgraded my Groupset from XTR to Alivio, because I like the raw feel of grinding cranks and seized deraileurs ." Makes no sense.